"Insults are the last refuge of the out-argued" G+ conversation

TracyMorganFreeman · 2012-07-09T21:19:07+00:00

This stuck out to me as odd:

What did I just say about intersectionality and men being supposed to shut the fuck up? Obviously I'm white and thus privileged but I'm also a trans woman. You get it now?

Is not an argument, but a "look at me now you should understand and agree with me". Them personally being a woman or a man or a particular race or a transperson does not increase or decrease the legitimacy of their position

Embogenous · 2012-07-09T21:57:33+00:00

Sure their argument sucks, but awesome transphobia, M.

loose-dendrite · 2012-07-09T22:34:57+00:00

Internalised oppression is very real. It is that voice at the back of your head telling you that you're worthless for being, for example, a woman and transsexual. Why is that voice there? Because people in power have conditioned you to think these things.

[emphasis mine]

Men absolutely deal with this too. It's had a real effect on my mental well-being ever since I was 7 or 8 and even has a (thankfully smaller) effect today. This poster is just a bigot, unwilling to be understand other people and super willing to be mean to them.

apotshot · 2012-07-09T22:22:33+00:00

omfg that is hilarious. well played. :D

he_cried_out_WTF · 2012-07-09T23:40:47+00:00

Sexism is traditionally perceived as a belief that the other gender is naturally inferior to your own - it's hard to claim sexism against your own gender and don't look like a clown while doing it.

Wait, I'm confused here. Doesn't this alone state that feminism is bollocks?

Xingularity · 2012-07-10T03:03:23+00:00

There is no such gender as "transsexual"

Gender isn't a binary "one or the other" idea to many people. This non-duality is the basis for the whole gender-identity issue, and causes a large portion of the problems faced by the transgender community. The long and the short of it is that there aren't "just two" genders, and the gender one identifies as has nothing to do with biology and everything to do with the person you choose to be.

It's more complicated than it might seem.

I, for example, am biologically male; I have a penis, no mammary glands, a much higher level of endogenous testosterone than estrogen, and an about-average sex drive for such. I choose not to identify as "a man" because I don't wish to associate with the culture, expectations and viewpoints of manhood. That's not to say that I identify as "a woman" either, because I find such an identity equally unsuitable.

I dress in typical male garments because I find them comfortable, as well as being what I am habituated to wearing. Not because I try to hide, and not because I want to double-back against the stereotype of being trans/nongender.

I don't laugh at either misandrist or misogynist sexist jokes, because I find neither to be funny.

I don't think anyone should be excluded from talking about sex or gender discrimination, and I think it's wrong to define who is or isn't qualified to speak about it.

I understand that I am in a position of privilege in that I present as male to those I don't explain my position, and that it is very easy for me to hide this fact when I choose to. I don't think that this diminishes the value of any argument I might present on the topic. I do try to keep in mind, however, that my privilege means that I will have difficulty identifying the issues of those who aren't in my position, and that for there to be real equality, I need to listen to them.

It's tricky. There are many people in this world who face some horrific treatment purely because they don't fit any of the molds of some other person's mind. None of us can afford to dismiss the stance of another, because we've all been through different things.

And it's hard, because discrimination is so emotionally-charged. It gets in your head, shapes your view of yourself, changes what you think you're worth, makes you chip away the edges of your sense of individuality until you can finally hammer yourself into their tiny brainmolds. And when you finally fit, you don't feel comfortable resting, because you've spent so long changing yourself to get in line with expectations that it's all you know how to do.

And when you finally get your head around the idea that you're perfectly okay the way you are, it's hard not to be angry at how much of your life was spent trying to be someone you're not, just because other people wouldn't accept you. And this anger will seek targets, and these targets will not be rationally chosen because anger is about as rational about choosing targets as a hand-grenade.

The important thing to remember is that the fire of this anger doesn't devalue the real suffering that happens.

If any of us want our causes to mean anything, we need to keep in mind that those of everyone else mean just as much.

rightsbot · 2012-07-09T20:24:18+00:00

Post text automatically copied here. (Why?) (Report a problem.)

Faryshta · 2012-07-09T20:24:01+00:00

I don't know how to make screen captures on G+

xafimrev · 2012-07-10T01:08:17+00:00

I'm pretty sure the person you were talking to was a troll simply by the use of transmisogynistic (huh?) and ableist (which there was no indication of).

"Insults are the last refuge of the out-argued" G+ conversation

mensrights

Comments

Title	"Insults are the last refuge of the out-argued" G+ conversation
Author	Faryshta
Upvotes	13
Comments	22
Date	July 9, 2012 8:23 PM UTC (14 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/wae4k/insults_are_the_last_refuge_of_the_outargued_g/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/insults-are-the-last-refuge-of-the-out-argued-g.1018272 https://theredarchive.com/post/1018272