Call me cynical, but it seems to me she just wants a guarantee that she can have half his stuff. (x-post from r/relationships)

[+][deleted] 14 years ago* (14 children) | Copy Link

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[–]rmbarnes 2 points3 points4 points 14 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]jvardrake -1 points0 points1 point 14 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

I don't see why marriage is seen as so important to her, but you can't really say that's her motive.

It's important because she knows that each year older she gets, the less desirable she becomes. In turn, this this means every year that passes marks another year of her losing more power, and more of her bargaining position (with this guy, and any others she might have dealings with if she leaves this one).

You know, in Japan, unmarried girls nearing 25 are called "Christmas Cakes". To understand this, you have to know that, in Japan, there is a tradition of eating cake on Christmas Eve.

Leading up to that day, you will see stores selling the cakes (even right outside, next to train stations and such) everywhere you go.

On Christmas Eve, the closer you get to closing time, the cakes suddenly become more and more discounted. This is because on the 25th, the cakes will lose a lot of their value.

People can argue about how bad men are because they like younger girls/women, but there is no fighting evolution. Just as women have evolved to value certain traits in their potential partners, so have men.

[–]THEAdrian -2 points-1 points0 points 14 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

women giving undue pressure on men that they're supposedly "in love with" to get married for no conceivable reason other than to say "we're married"? sounds like at least somewhat of a men's rights issue

it seems that (most of the time anyway, not saying it's always this way) but the pressure is always from the woman. i constantly hear women in LTRs going "omg i wanna get married! i can't wait till he proposes!" etc etc, but i've never once heard a man say the same thing

and then you get articles written about how men are lazy and "aren't as interested in growing up and settling down". maybe it's because we haven't found someone we want to settle down with? or maybe because all the pressure is causing us to rethink the consequences? apparently men are children because they think things through...

[–]NiceGuysSTFU -1 points0 points1 point 14 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

[–]THEAdrian 2 points3 points4 points 14 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

no, you're full of shit. sacrificing a bunch of stuff for another person does not mean you're in their debt and that they "owe you", that's a really childish and immature way to look at relationships

also i can't emphasize this enough, how does marriage show "where the relationship is headed"? what the hell does that even mean? please, provide me with insight

and as i commented on the original post, MARRIAGE IS FAR FROM PERMANENT AND HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH LEGITIMIZING A RELATIONSHIP! DIVORCE RATES ARE AROUND 50%! it's simply a legal document saying you own each others' stuff, that's FUCKING it. It has nothing to do with love, it doesn't guarantee you'll be together, and the fact that people break up because they're NOT getting married completely contradicts what it's supposed to mean.

i knew a girl that broke up with her bf because he didn't propose to her. that's not unconditional love because one of the conditions was that he HAD TO PROPOSE TO HER! if you love someone unconditionally (which is the ONLY reason anyone should get married) then you shouldn't need to get married, because that shouldn't be a condition.

[–]NiceGuysSTFU 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago* (7 children) | Copy Link

no, you're full of shit. sacrificing a bunch of stuff for another person does not mean you're in their debt and that they "owe you", that's a really childish and immature way to look at relationships

Of course he does not "owe her," however, it is an unfair accusation to make that she is interested in marriage simply b/c she is materialistic considering she also made financial sacrifices to be in the relationship.

how does marriage show "where the relationship is headed"? what the hell does that even mean? please, provide me with insight

To some people (not to me), marriage can be a logical step to take in a relationship that both parties decide to be lifelong. I don't begrudge anyone this. It is my understanding from the OP that one or both parties moved to a different countries in the course of their relationship, and, while unfair, marriage confers legal status upon partners that can be important/necessary when issues of immigration are in play.

MARRIAGE IS FAR FROM PERMANENT AND HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH LEGITIMIZING A RELATIONSHIP! DIVORCE RATES ARE AROUND 50%! it's simply a legal document saying you own each others' stuff, that's FUCKING it. It has nothing to do with love, it doesn't guarantee you'll be together, and the fact that people break up because they're NOT getting married completely contradicts what it's supposed to mean.

That, frankly, is your opionion, and only your opinion. For others, particularly those in the US who are fighting for equal rights for same-sex partners, marriage is far more than a property agreement. And frankly, the fact that 50% of marriages end of divorce no more delegitimizes the institution of marriage than does the fact that 50% of marriages don't end in divorce legitimizes it.

I never thought I would find myself considering marriage ever until fairly recently (I am in my mid-30s) when several hospitalizations proved that medical staff had no obligation to let me see/speak to my partner, when she had no legal standing to take care of any of my financial affairs in my absence and, god forbid, make any end-of-life decisions. Whatsmore, growing up with a parent who was in and out of the hospital my whole life opened my eyes as well (in retrospect.)

Neither my partner nor I want to get married (she is divorced) but we do want some of the legal protections that marriage affords. Unfortunately, our state doesn't offer civil unions either. I wonder if there is such a thing as a "non-nuptual agreement."

i knew a girl that broke up with her bf because he didn't propose to her. that's not unconditional love because one of the conditions was that he HAD TO PROPOSE TO HER! if you love someone unconditionally (which is the ONLY reason anyone should get married) then you shouldn't need to get married, because that shouldn't be a condition.

So? Is that not her right? If you are in a relationship what you want different things out of than your partner does, you SHOULD break up. Why on earth should anyone sacrifice their personal happiness in the name of "unconditional love?" Does the fact that she ended their relationship mean she didn't love him? No - it simply meant their vision of what their relationship would be long term was incompatible. Nothing more.

[–]THEAdrian -2 points-1 points0 points 14 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

you've simply proven my point that marriage is only a legal document and has nothing to do with love

and as for my example at the bottom, yes she had the right to, but the fact that she broke up with him because he didn't propose shows that she wanted to get married to him. however, this proves she didn't love him unconditionally, and why would you want to get married to someone you don't love unconditionally?

not saying she has to sacrifice her personal happiness, i'm saying: why is marriage a condition of her personal happiness? why is that the be-all end-all of her happiness? what happiness would marriage provide that didn't already currently exist in their relationship? (other than the legal bullshit)

i'm against the institute of marriage. it's not that i don't think people shouldn't get married, i just think the whole institution has been corrupted and bastardized and essentially means nothing anymore. also, the only reason why homosexuals are fighting for the right to be married (and they SHOULD have that right, don't get me wrong) is because society places such importance on it that it's seen as a desirable goal, when it really doesn't mean shit as far as the quality of your relationship.

also, i mentioned to another user that my title was a bit misleading, and i should have worded it differently. i don't believe she's a gold-digger, i just don't see any other reason for her putting so much pressure on marriage. also, she never mentioned anything about immigration so i doubt that's her motive

[–]NiceGuysSTFU 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

you've simply proven my point that marriage is only a legal document and has nothing to do with love

Um...I don't think "making it legal" and "being in love" are mutually exclusive, dude. For some it is "only" a legal document, for others, it means much more than that.

the fact that she broke up with him because he didn't propose shows that she wanted to get married to him.

Duh.

however, this proves she didn't love him unconditionally, and why would you want to get married to someone you don't love unconditionally?

No it doesn't. It doesn't prove anything about love. All it shows is that their ideas of the relationship and where it was going was incompatible. If he had left her b/c he wanted kids and she didn't, would that have meant he loved her any less???

not saying she has to sacrifice her personal happiness, i'm saying: why is marriage a condition of her personal happiness? why is that the be-all end-all of her happiness? Why don't you ask her that? I'm not a mind reader. It is not my condition for my happiness, but for some people it is a very important life event. She made several sacrifices in her life to be with her partner. If she eventually wants to get married, or at least wants it to be on the table in the future, when the time is right, I see nothing wrong or selfish about that. If that is something that her boyfriend is not ever going to be on the same page about, why should she sacrifice her goals and the vision for her life to accomodate his goals and the vision for his life?

i'm against the institute of marriage. it's not that i don't think people shouldn't get married, i just think the whole institution has been corrupted and bastardized and essentially means nothing anymore. How so? What did it used to mean?

also, the only reason why homosexuals are fighting for the right to be married (and they SHOULD have that right, don't get me wrong) is because society places such importance on it that it's seen as a desirable goal, when it really doesn't mean shit as far as the quality of your relationship.

Unless you are a bigot, the proper terminology is "gays and lesbians," not "homosexuals." So it is acceptable to you that gays & lesbians ascribe importance to marriage b/c society places value upon it, but it's not acceptable for a woman who wants to get married to a man? I would say their desire for marriage legalization has more to do with civil rights than any actual desire to get married (for love, for benefits, whatever), but that doesn't delegitimize it.

i just don't see any other reason for her putting so much pressure on marriage.

It's so weird. It's almost like...there's some external force...I don't know what...that puts this weird pressure on women to be married by a certain point in their lives or they're useless/undesirable/unsuccessful. Funny, that.

also, i mentioned to another user that my title was a bit misleading, and i should have worded it differently. i don't believe she's a gold-digger, i just don't see any other reason for her putting so much pressure on marriage. also, she never mentioned anything about immigration so i doubt that's her motive

Actually, yes, she did: I want to be with him, but I don't feel like I can't plan for the future without knowing he's in it. I'm in a foreign country and would probably have to go home.

Sounds perfectly reasonable to me. She has things (other than marriage) she wants to do with her life, and in order to map her way to them, she will, at some point, need to know whether she'll be doing so solo or not...

[–]THEAdrian -2 points-1 points0 points 14 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

she would only be doing them solo if she broke up with him. if her qualm was with getting deported, she would have specifically said that. what she said is that she would probably have to go home because she would have no reason to stay with him if he didn't marry her (which is my whole point). also, you don't have to get married to get a green card, you can apply for citizenship

your "having kids" argument doesn't really hold up because that has to do with raising a family and actually DOING something. look, i understand why people feel that marriage is important, and i understand that it's a big deal to some people. but saying "i need to get married or proposed to by this point in my life or i'm breaking up with you" is just really shallow. i get your point of "if two people want different things in the relationship, they shouldn't be together" but i fail to see how these two people want different things in their life. he never said he didn't want to start a family, he never said he didn't want to be with her for the rest of his life, he never said he wanted to keep dating other people, he never said he wanted to break up. why is not getting married apparently the equivalent of breaking up? am i missing something because i can't wrap my head around that... the "wanting different things" in a relationship is apparently she wants a piece of paper saying they own each others' stuff, a big shiny ring, a white dress and a big expensive celebration, and he doesn't (not right now anyway, he never said he NEVER wanted to get married either). to me, all these are shallow, hollow things that don't have anything to do with wanting different things out of a relationship. if your relationship is solid enough, you don't need marriage, nobody NEEDS marriage.

and no i'm not a bigot, but since when was it politically incorrect to say "homosexual"? don't use ad hominem please. also i said they should have the right to marry, not that they should place importance on it.

[–]NiceGuysSTFU 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]THEAdrian -2 points-1 points0 points 14 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

i never said she's a golddigger, i'm saying those are the physical things that marriage entails. you don't get anything more out of it, so you may draw what conclusions you will from that.

as a non-american, i don't know who those people are and frankly don't care, but once again, you're using ad hominem and saying "homosexual" is bigoted by association, which is bullshit. i have lots of gay friends and i don't bring up their sexual orientation in front of them, but nevertheless, they have never told me. i also doubt you speak for the entire "gay and lesbian" community.

as someone who is science-inclined, i use "homosexual" because it is a science-based word used to show that one exhibits sexual attraction or sexual tendencies towards other members of the same sex. when describing animals, you'll never hear "they are known to exhibit gay and/or lesbian tendencies". no, they'll say "they are known to exhibit homosexual tendencies", so please, stop talking about this because you have no idea what you're saying.

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