Women are the majority when it comes to child abuse.

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The OP gets posted every month, and so does the primary caretaker argument. I've never seen any study verify the common argument that opportunity is correlated, or even has a causal relationship with increased victimization rates. There has simply been no study to verify this common idea. The reality could be completely backwards.

Maybe in the extreme when one spouse is utterly missing, to the point of it being categorically a single-parent household, in which case the opportunity argument is moot.... because you can only collect data on one parent. Regardless, you can refer here to see that a woman, on an individual basis, is still estimated to be more likely to victimize their children, even with single parent households accounted for.

In the end, I could care less about the stats for it, but it's important to bring it up in discussions regarding child custody. Women get custody 5 times more often than men, so it's clear the courts do not look at cases at an individual basis, and thus they discriminate against men outright despite the reality that women are more likely to victimize their children. We should see something closer to 50/50 custody, not 5:1.

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[–]LiberalsLoveRape 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

I have little doubt these statistics are true. What should be noted is that women are usually still the primary caretakers - even in two parent homes.

This does not mean there is an exact proportional relationship to child abuse and parenting time (avg. days per month). There is no mystery to parenting, for the conscientious it is akin to learning a new language or the piano. The more one focuses and does it, the more relaxed and the better one gets at it. Systems are put in place for dealing with triggers for stress, routines are established, entropy becomes controlled.

Someone who has child one or two weekends a month might find it more difficult to develop parenting skillsets to a high degree, in the same way someone who uses music theory or German grammar two days a month might be at a disadvantage in developing those skillsets, versus someone who uses them almost daily.

[–]WeirdAndGilly 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

There is no mystery to parenting, for the conscientious it is akin to learning a new language or the piano.

I don't see that as being a good analogy at all.

Both a new language and a piano are infinitely more predictable than a developing and learning child. There are rules and the rules don't change.

Something that worked like gangbusters yesterday to get things done in a timely fashion and with little chaos could completely fail to work today. And this discrepancy gets larger the greater the span in time as the child grows and develops their own personality and keeps testing the boundaries.

Plus you seem to be assuming that all of these people are average or above average in terms of learning and coping abilities. I guarantee that most parents who abuse (and most spouses who abuse) do it because of a lack of coping skills, not with any actual malice aforethought.

[–]LiberalsLoveRape -1 points0 points1 point 14 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Both a new language and a piano are infinitely more predictable than a developing and learning child. There are rules and the rules don't change.

Do you understand Jazz or foreign dialect? The analogy works quite well because both can constitute an intersection of traditional left and right brain thinking. Simple logic will not make one an excellent and diverse guitar player skilled at Jazz improvisation, nor will simply it make one comfortable bantering with first time dinner guests in a second language.

Something that worked like gangbusters yesterday to get things done in a timely fashion and with little chaos could completely fail to work today.

Just as intuitively, techniques, gear, scales and tunings that work when jamming Slayer with friends, would stop a Monday night blues jam like nails on a chalkboard. Working with myriad variables, working with multiple personalities for an outcome, understanding improvisation and thinking quickly, working in multiple contexts, all of these are part of understanding multiple languages as well as music.

Once again, effective parenting is no mystery, it takes: practice over time, knowledge, the ability to think quickly and a healthy mixture of decisive logic and creative intuition.

[–]WeirdAndGilly 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Just as intuitively, techniques, gear, scales and tunings that work when jamming Slayer with friends, would stop a Monday night blues jam like nails on a chalkboard. Working with myriad variables, working with multiple personalities for an outcome, understanding improvisation and thinking quickly, working in multiple contexts, all of these are part of understanding multiple languages as well as music.

And yet you seem to think that this is a simple thing that anybody could master.

Keep in mind most parents go into it with no training and no truly knowledgeable help along the way. And you don't get a do-over with kids. Even if you have more kids they will not be the same and will not require the same skillset.

The number of people in the world who could learn to speak a new language fluently or to play a musical instrument to the point where they are a skillful jazz musician with no training and no regular feedback on how well they're doing or whether a particular technique or pronunciation is right or wrong is probably less than 10,000. But you apparently find it mind-boggling that everybody can't learn to parent this way.

And all of this is still ignoring the point that the people who are abusers like this not only don't have the parenting skills required. They don't even have the coping skills required to go out and learn those parenting skills.

[–]LiberalsLoveRape -1 points0 points1 point 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

And yet you seem to think that this is a simple thing that anybody could master.

or to play a musical instrument to the point where they are a skillful jazz musician with no training

I qualified earlier that it was a combination of practice (conscientious parenting time) and creative thinking, meaning the more one parents, the better one can become at it using the right approach. I also think music and language can be easy to excel at if one follows the right formula.

And all of this is still ignoring the point that the people who are abusers like this not only don't have the parenting skills required. They don't even have the coping skills required to go out and learn those parenting skills.

I think you somewhat have a point, but I would say many don't have the will, not that they don't have the skill, to develop their parenting skillsets. If one doesn't have the will to be a good parent, than no amount of cognition can compensate for that.

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points1 point 14 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

What?

Post partum depression affects a minority of women seriously. While it is serious, and it is not funny, most women just claim it as an excuse for bad behavior and inability to stop stuffing their face or woman up and act like an adult. It truly affects small minority of the population of pregnant women. But its easy to claim victimhood when you are trained that way from birth.

Support system???? Women receive 88% of the child support and almost 97% of the alimony. Are you fucking joking?

Little support from a spouse working 10-12 hour days? LOL? Who's going to pay the fuckiing bills? Besides this example being hilariously stupid, most are 2 income homes [or divorced/separated/single and mandated with child support by the state.] Women work and make their own money, as well as get man's money. WIC. Women and Children. Not men.

What the fucking fuck is this shit. Get the fuck out with your tired anecdotes about "WOMEN NEED MORE SUPPORT." Jesus fucking christ.

[–]WeirdAndGilly 4 points5 points6 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

What the fucking fuck is this shit. Get the fuck out with your tired anecdotes about "WOMEN NEED MORE SUPPORT." Jesus fucking christ.

You are clearly full of hate. It's shit like this that drives reasonable men away from this subreddit in droves. And you're telling me to GTFO as well so you can continue your hateful circlejerk without any moderating tone to it whatsoever.

Post partum depression affects a minority of women seriously.

Show me the numbers. And then consider that the stigma for any type of "mental illness" is as strong as the stigma that prevents men from reporting being abused by their spouses. Most of it goes unreported despite your apparent belief that all women love playing the victim card.

While it is serious, and it is not funny, most women just claim it as an excuse for bad behavior and inability to stop stuffing their face or woman up and act like an adult.

And this is exactly what I'm talking about. What woman will admit she has depression when the response from someone like you will be "You're lying, you lazy fat cow. Get back in the kitchen".

It truly affects small minority of the population of pregnant women.

Post partum depression doesn't affect any pregnant women. You are starting to show that you are not only horribly biased, you also have no idea what you're talking about.

Support system???? Women receive 88% of the child support and almost 97% of the alimony. Are you fucking joking?

Despite the fact this seems to be the legal definition of the word, money was not what I was talking about when I talked about support. Support is a break from spending 24/7 with children, which is akin to spending 24/7 in chaos with little to no adult interaction. It's a chance to walk away form it for a while and clear you head and talk with peers instead of kids.

Little support from a spouse working 10-12 hour days? LOL? Who's going to pay the fuckiing bills?

Completely missing the point here.

Besides this example being hilariously stupid

You've completely failed to prove that here.

most are 2 income homes [or divorced/separated/single and mandated with child support by the state.]

Most what? Most homes where the women is the primary abuser? How do you know this?

[–][deleted] -2 points-1 points0 points 14 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

Women do need support. Can you guess what was the biggest source of support for women? Community, often religious. Disclaimer: I'm agnostic.

There is very little community left for most people and that is very sad. So they lean on their family who in turn leans back. Can you guess what happens when such women start complaining to their family about "oh, my husband is working late" or "oh, my husband is never on time for dinner"? The family starts thinking selfishly and want to draw the woman out of the marriage so that they can get their own support. Perhaps they are already divorced. And the woman is open to this. While the man is out working so he can make a good living for his wife and kids, she is out there getting "support" from people who themselves are eager for more access to support. It becomes a feedback loop.

You hit the nail on the head regarding a good support system but the support system that has existed for hundreds if not thousands of years has been dismantled in the last century or two in favour of the nation-state. You're bound to break a few eggs. My prediction is marriage is completely done for if society continues the way it has. That is not necessarily good or bad, just done.

The future will be two parents, raising their common children separately with the only support system being other such people, if that.

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Dependent on the the family

Don't even get me started on this. This is the crux of the whole "wage gap" argument. The reason why there are less male teachers are because men generally not trying to be teachers(just like how women aren't in more IT jobs)

Both.

Key word "Historically". The times the times are a changing and we as men need to move forward.

Not asking for an essay, just a simple copy/paste of something I just can't seem to find on google no matter how hard I look.

My argument is: Even if feminists are pumping out anti-male ads on a daily basis. Which MROs are doing the same thing to balance out what is being shown to the general population?

Just a question I've yet to receive an answer on.

All I get when I ask questions in this sub are

"Well... if you look at the feminists!"

Only ONE straight answer. and that came from Celda.

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[–]LiberalsLoveRape -5 points-4 points-3 points 14 years ago (15 children) | Copy Link

TIL violence against children is acceptable

The garden variety liberal feminist believes that domestic violence against an adult woman, who can fight back, walk away, call the police and/or explore any of 100 publicly paid for options, is worse than an adult woman committing violence against a child. It's evident in almost any conversation with a feminist when discussing domestic violence, in which those on the feminist side will take any and all opportunities to minimize or re-direct away from the child abuse side of the conversation.

It often goes like this...

Fem: "Men need to stop DV, they are bigger and stronger and commit most DV. Women are hurting, men are using their patriarchy to yadda, yadda, yadda..."

MRA: "Yes, but women commit the majority of child abuse and murder of children and to be intellectually honest, isn't that a worse form of DV? Shouldn't this really be a gender neutral issue that affects everybody?"

Fem: "RAWR!! That isn't what we're talking about! Men are bigger and stronger, women shouldn't have to live in fear in the HOME!!!!"

MRA: "No, seriously. What about children? Women commit the majority of violence against them. Does that count when discussing violence in the home?"

Fem: "RAWR!! Men are bigger and stronger! You hate women! DON'T YOU UNDERSTAND THAT YOU MISOGYNIST! RAGEQUIT!!!"

MRA: "Yawn"

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[–]LonelyCynic 4 points5 points6 points 14 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

What a strange argument. I assume you're pro choice? Do you care about children's rights? Why can't you see how that's not exactly how you're framing us. I personally don't believe in abortion. I can't imagine ever wanting a financial abortion either. I however could never fathom telling a woman what she has to do with her body. It's morally reprehensible to me to make someone become a human incubator against their will. But I feel the same for men who don't want children. I believe slavery is also wrong. That's exactly what the current system is. Just oh well, "man up". You are now a slave for 18+ years. No rights, no decision, no choice. You were raped and a child was born from that? Too bad. You still have no choice. Can't pay; refuse to pay? Go to prison. You see us as these inhuman monsters, less then you, all we want is some sort of equality in the law and society. Because we are men we don't care about the suffering of children? That's horrific. Listen to yourself. We're trying to shine a light on the often overlooked abusers. Genedered beliefs that women are incapible of horrible crimes against children see these kids time and again put back into harms way. I've seen first hand the drestructive power an abusive mother can have on a childs life. My niece's crack head mom for example, who sold her sister to men and women who would molest her for money.

[–]rabblerabble2000 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[–]LonelyCynic 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

Whatever, man. Do you have to defend every feminist or idea that you disagree with coming from that side? The ones calling for the genocide of men, or that all hetro sex is rape? Come the fuck on. And you're still ignoring my argument. A woman can choose to not be a parent full stop at any point before during or after pregnancy there's nothing wrong with giving the man one small window of opportunity to say, "I'm not ready to be a father, I don't want to be a father." Men shouldn't have more responsibilities then women just because we were born with a penis. If you can't see that well then you're a hypocrite as well as a sexist. And yeah you also side tracked the rape part too. Most people even hardcore religious conservatives would allow for abortion for a rape victim. You'd have him paying money to his rapist for almost two decades. Fuck that; fuck you.

[–]rabblerabble2000 -2 points-1 points0 points 14 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

First off, I'm not a feminist. I don't associate myself with any -ist for that matter, so that strawman's out.

That having been said, what the fuck are you even talking about...you make no goddamned sense. I'm just going to ignore most of what you're saying as it's kind of stupid, but I'll just hit on one thing here...Paying child support does not equal having more responsibility for your child. That's ludicrous and insulting to anyone who's ever been a single parent.

Also, what the fuck does rape have to do with anything having to do with this topic? I'm sure if a man is raped, he won't have to pay his rapist child support...That's so stupid and such a strawman I don't even know what to say about it. This is the problem with MR...You guys make shit up in your heads which, yes, could theoretically happen and then rail against it as though it's a normal occurrence when if it does happen it happens so incredibly rarely that it's statistically irrelevant.

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I'm a liberal.

I've been in the movement for around fifteen years. Before that, I was marginally interested for another ten. In most of that time, the people responsible for 99% of the scathing attacks on men's issues were liberals. The people who have consistently put up roadblocks for addressing men's issues were liberals. The people who viewed caring about boys' issues as being wholly detrimental to girls', were liberals. This was present online and in an very active social life as a pretty public guy.

It seems like there is a new group of younger people who self identify as liberal based on certain issues, but don't understand the recent history of modern liberalism as it relates to feminism, or how pervasive the hate and pushback towards MRA's has been from them. In fact, before Reddit's MRA community, I typically saw liberals get involved from an issue that affected them or a family member, steadfastly stick to their ideology, then eventually realize after a year or so that liberals hated them and were part of the problem.

Lather, rinse, repeat. To the liberals out there, I say welcome aboard.

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Title	Women are the majority when it comes to child abuse.
Author	Il128
Upvotes	93
Comments	87
Date	December 9, 2011 2:06 PM UTC (14 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/n687u/women_are_the_majority_when_it_comes_to_child/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/women-are-the-majority-when-it-comes-to-child.1030770 https://theredarchive.com/post/1030770

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