5 Stupid, Unfair and Sexist Things Expected of Men

2010-07-26T22:15:05+00:00

Finally, a woman who knows what its like to be a man. Every day when I leave the house I worry about getting into a fight. I'm constantly under pressure to have sex with strange women I meet and always agonize that other men might think I am gay (maybe these are related?) And I cannot relax at night from being so stiff at all times. I really want to be a good husband, father, lover, but I'm just so darned afraid to ask my partner how I'm doing.

This woman just nailed it, if only I was not so insecure about my manhood, I'd be a better man. Gosh, she says what we all feel but are just too afraid to say. If only men were braver and more honest, like women. Thank you, Greta.

Now, do you mind if a man takes a shot at analyzing how women really feel? Or would that be sexist, you stupid git.

FreddyDeus · 2010-07-26T13:38:09+00:00

Whoa!

This isn't a list of unfair expectations of men. This is a list of complaints about men disguised as a list of unfair expectations.

This is a woman complaining about the expectations that men put on other men, subtly demonstrating that men:

a: Are everything feminism claims we are. b: That it is men who make us that way.

Take, for example, the 'expectation' that we should be 'hot to trot' at any time. First the author assumes that this is a universal male trait, with the implication that men just cannot be faithful. And that it is the peer pressure of other men that make men behave like this.

This is just an exercise in confirmation bias and blame.

I could provide a far more extensive and accurate list (although around here, I doubt I need to) of unfair expectations that both society and women place on men that the author of this piece (a feminist of course) has been completely blind to.

I, as a man, do not believe for a fucking moment that a multitude of men, for example, have sited having to 'fight' as one of their biggest 'unfair exectations'. Sure there are times (very few as an adult) where I've had to throw a punch to defend myself. But never in a month of sundays have I ever, since the school playground, felt that 'society', women, or as this author suggests other men, think I constantly need to be bashing some poor fucker in the face.

This list is a false flag operation, disguising accusation as sympathy and understanding.

AussieSceptic · 2010-07-26T12:00:03+00:00

I think the author is sincere but misses the point quite severely. She opens by stating that sexism is a problem which is much worse for women, but there a few problems men experience too (extremely condescending). She then goes onto mention a list of problems which really seem to miss the main message of the MR movement. Nothing about false rape. Nothing about DV. Nothing about custody laws. Nothing about inequality of criminal sentencing. Nothing about reproductive rights. She really hasn't touched upon any of the hot-button issues of the MR movement.

Seriously, keeping a stiff upper lip and the fear of being perceived as gay is pretty low on the list of priorities.

ProbablyNotToday · 2010-07-26T17:04:05+00:00

Reminds me of this thing I heard on the radio this morning. They went over a few things a "gentleman" does, such as:

A gentleman always stands up when a woman leaves or approaches the table.
A gentleman never orders before a woman.
A gentleman never leaves the table.
A gentleman never orders anything cheap like a salad (because I'm guessing it would make the woman feel guilty for ordering something more expensive).

ignatiusloyola · 2010-07-26T16:22:30+00:00

I responded to her with the following (sorry for the long read)

Hi. I read your article on AlterNet, and while it is nice to have some recognition for some of the sexism that men encounter, I think you are missing some important information.

To quote you: "But we don't talk as much about how sexism hurts men. Understandably. When you look at the grotesque ways women are damaged by sexism -- from economic inequality to political disenfranchisement to literal, physical abuse -- it makes perfect sense that we'd care more about how sexism and patriarchy and rigid gender roles affect women, than we do about how they affect men."

First of all - sexism doesn't result in physical abuse. Abusive people result in physical abuse. The only possible sexist aspect of physical abuse would be if it were institutionally acceptable in our society to beat women. Since that is not the case, it isn't an issue of sexism. It is definitely a difficulty faced by many women, but it is most definitely not sexism.

Secondly, men face as much abuse as women do. I would like to draw your attention to the following websites: According to this published study - http://www.patientedu.org/aspx/HealthELibrary/HealthETopic.aspx?cid=M0907d - women are the perpetrators of violence 70% of the time. This Psych article - http://pn.psychiatryonline.org/content/42/15/31.2.full?eaf - discusses a study published by the Centre for Disease Control (CDC) in the US about domestic violence, showing that violence is perpetrated more often by women. This link - http://www.dvmen.org/dv-35.htm#pgfId-1353321 - presents the results from several studies that show interpartner violence is at least equally prevalent between genders. This academic study - http://www.mensrights.com.au/page13y.htm - shows the same, that the genders are at least equal in violence.

Note that this information clearly distinguishes when women are violent in defense or violent at the same time as men, and when it is not in self defense or anything of the sort.

One aspect of sexism that you seemed to miss in your article is that men are faced with this stereotype every single day - that we are the only ones who are perpetrators of violence (or the majority perpetrators). Yourself is guilty of this sexist attitude, but I don't hold it against you as it is just so prevalent in our society.

Thirdly, a recent analysis by CONSAD (http://consad.com/index.php?page=an-analysis-of-reasons-for-the-disparity-in-wages-between-men-and-women) showed that there is no evidence of systematic discrimination against women in wages. I quote:

"The report demonstrates that it is not possible now, and doubtless will never be possible, to determine reliably whether any portion of the observed gender wage gap is not attributable to factors that compensate women and men differently on socially acceptable bases, and hence can confidently be attributed to overt discrimination against women."

The multiple negatives are difficult to read through, as they had to be very careful in their wording so as not to offend women's groups, but it is pretty clear. There is no way, nor will there ever likely be, any way to attribute the wage gap to anything other than perfectly socially acceptable reasons that have nothing to do with sexism.

I hope you took the time to read through this whole email. It is a very important issue, and I think you are missing an entire side of the situation. As a journalist, I hope you can see the importance of this.

Thanks for reading.

CellarDweller · 2010-07-26T23:16:22+00:00

The same article is posted feminisms, with an emphsis on men fighting. Men who comment how bogus the article is are downvoted. Its ironic that most intimate violence today is started by females and most school violence is between girls.

I'd comment over there, but I was banned for using the new hip phrase 'My fault, I'm female' in a way deemed derogatory to females and upsetting to their delicate sensibilities. They could not retaliate physically over the internet, so they banned me. Go figure.

2010-07-26T16:49:54+00:00

It's painfully obvious that this author is a woman in unknown territory :p

kloo2yoo · 2010-07-26T12:32:17+00:00

There's a great deal of sympathy in her writing, but she does miss the mark:

Yes, they say, society wants men to be one way and women to be another. Who cares what society wants?

The President, legislators, judges, and cops. See my conspiracy rant linked on the sidebar.

2010-07-27T00:28:35+00:00

She's right. From now on, I will hug it out, do what my wife says (based on female expectations of my role as a husband), sleep with fat chicks because apparently I'm into that, be overly emotional and dress like a woman.

2010-07-26T16:44:44+00:00

Even if conflicts never get that far -- even if you never actually have to pound anyone with your fists -- being both willing and able to do so is a weirdly high priority in the Penis Club.

I fail to see what's so weird about that.

Like dating a fat chick is a slam on their ego. Like it means they're not high enough on the primate status ladder to acquire a high-status mate.

Correct.

Infectaphibian · 2010-07-26T23:42:02+00:00

It's only now that many women find themselves in roles traditionally held by men that such things are "unfair and sexist." This article isn't really about men.

2010-07-26T23:50:07+00:00

Downvoted for Listspam

2010-07-26T23:32:08+00:00

The preface may have been a little unnecessary (sounds like she's just trying to appeal to a typically female and feminist audience, which is frustrating), and I'm surprised not many people have jumped on it. And kind of glad, since it distracts from the real meat of the article.

But IMO the list, itself, is pretty good and I can relate to pretty much all of it in my daily life. What made it good was that she actually got these views from men, and not simply from her own observations. It provides some integrity to the article.

Title	5 Stupid, Unfair and Sexist Things Expected of Men
Author	American_Pie
Upvotes	30
Comments	59
Date	July 26, 2010 10:57 AM UTC (15 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/ctr6f/5_stupid_unfair_and_sexist_things_expected_of_men/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/5-stupid-unfair-and-sexist-things-expected-of-men.1048460 https://theredarchive.com/post/1048460

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