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New paper argues that feminist messaging about violence against women in the Muslim community is used primarily to drive anti-Muslim sentiment, not to help Muslim women

Oncefa2

March 16, 2021
37 upvotes
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates
https://journals.uvic.ca/index.php/ijcyfs/article/view/20082
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Title New paper argues that feminist messaging about violence against women in the Muslim community is used primarily to drive anti-Muslim sentiment, not to help Muslim women
Author

Oncefa2

Upvotes 37
Comments 7
Date March 16, 2021 1:07 PM UTC
(5 years ago)
Subreddit Posted in /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/comments/m68nr4/new_paper_argues_that_feminist_messaging_about/
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/new-paper-argues-that-feminist-messaging-about.1061710
https://theredarchive.com/post/1061710
Red Pill terms in post
feminist
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Comments

[–]teepgentlemenplease 17 points18 points19 points 5 years ago* (2 children) | Copy Link

Don't just jump on this because it confirms one of your biases! Seriously, just look at the title. "Should Feminists Stop Talking About..." That's an immediate red flag right there.
And, predictably, this is not a case of people talking sense, it's a case of Gender Feminist vs. RadFem infighting. Look up the author, she's a Gender Studies and Critical Race person. Those people have a weird alliance with Muslim traditionalists and slam anything critical of Islamic cultures by calling it "Islamophobia", even if they have to throw Muslim women under the bus.
Also: know your ideologies, the demarcation lines between them, and their respective rhetoric and code words, or you might end up unwittingly spreading the talking points of someone who is not at all sympathetic to your cause.

[–]Oncefa2left-wing male advocate[S] 3 points4 points5 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Gender studies is not the same thing as "gender critical".

You may be right about this person (I haven't looked yet) but gender studies as an academic discipline was started by feminists and continues to be ran be feminists. It is also what dictates feminist theory. When people talk about the patriarchy, male oppression, and stuff like that, they're pulling very specifically from academic feminism or "gender studies".

And trust me, many MRAs would love it if universities dropped their gender studies programs because it basically amounts to political indoctrination. You get an A for being a feminist, basically.

[–]teepgentlemenplease 6 points7 points8 points 5 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

Gender studies is not the same thing as "gender critical". ... gender studies as an academic discipline was started by feminists and continues to be ran be feminists. It is also what dictates feminist theory. When people talk about the patriarchy, male oppression, and stuff like that, they're pulling very specifically from academic feminism or "gender studies".

I think you misunderstood my post, because what you wrote doesn't contradict what I wrote, quite the contrary. Except for the part where you thought I had confused Gender Feminism and Gender Critical Feminism (aka RadFem).

[–]Oncefa2left-wing male advocate[S] 2 points3 points4 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

This is based only on the abstract.

But it looks super relevant to what's happening in the UK right now.

It also has parallels with racism against black people in the US. Something that the ACLU has low key mentioned as a problem in the past.

Note that this does not appear to be an honest mistake, or something that's happening as a side-effect of their "activism" (for example by actual racists). The abstract specifically claims that their methods are obviously ineffective and are instead geared to play into anti-Muslim sentiment, not to help women.

[–]OirishM 1 point2 points3 points 5 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

I'd advise reading the paper in more detail. There are some examples of (for want of a better term) white feminist arguments that play into anti-Muslim stereotypes. A lot of the examples are in fact about feminists with backgrounds from those non-western cultures having internalised white or white-supremacist framings of the problems of violence in Muslim cultures, and the author seems to want to challenge that internalisation and have people use alternatives instead.

I've only skimmed it, but I'm not sure if they're making the claim that this is not an honest mistake. It's a bit more nuanced than that.

In general though, I think we can make use of the debate on feminism's failures to be intersectional - its tendency to centre a certain subset of otherwise privileged women seems quite naturally to me to result in the exclusion of male perspectives as well. We're the final boss, top-tier oppressors to them, so obviously they'll avoid centring our suffering. However, systemic issues facing us exist.

I think we can combine these facts into an approach where we:

  1. Emphasise to people where structural issues facing men exist
  2. Emphasise to people that existing non/antipatriarchal discussions have a track record of shutting different demographics out of the discussion.

If they can agree on 1, and agree on 2 that feminism can shut out discussion of systemic issues facing nonwhite or LGBT people, it's not so much of a leap for them to accept that they are shutting out discussion of men's systemic issues as well.

[–]Burlerevyyleft-wing male advocate 1 point2 points3 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I only see conservatives and rightwingers doing that not feminists.

[–]TheSpaceDuck 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

The irony is amazing.

You have to be either a fanatic or have IQ in the single digits to say something like this and then go on using the very same narrative to raise sentiment not against Muslims but against 50% of the population.

These people couldn't pour water out of a boot if the instructions were at the bottom.

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