Any Tips for Writing....

plitox_is_a_bitch · 2020-01-11T04:35:20+00:00

Ah, sweet, my useless creative writing degree comes in handy!

First of all - THANK YOU for asking. No one ever questions the portrayal of men in women's fiction in the way that the portrayal of women in men's fiction.

A lot of this is related to romantic relationships - this is simply because most of female-written fiction I've come across (and forced to fucking study) see men as romance or status object.

One thing I'd start with is to remember male characters should not solely exist to serve the female characters. They have other things going on. It's a bad feminine stereotype and power fantasy that men just exist to serve men, enjoy serving women, and don't do anything when there isn't a woman around to serve. Write a wider range of things for men to do rather than just "try to impress the girl".

Have male characters who aren't trying to fuck any female protagonists. More importantly, don't deny male characters personal choice when it comes to not wanting to sleep with female protagonists - don't "externalise" their lack of interest in her by making circumstances outside their control the reason for the platonic-only interest. Things like token gay guys, they're part of a different social demographic (race is the WORST for this in female fiction), or boys who somehow, magically, "know their place" in relation to the female protagonist.

And just because they're not trying to fuck them doesn't make them evil or bad. Platonic different-sex, equal relationships exist.

Don't portray men as incredibly stupid compared to women just to make the women look better. Worse, don't have the women do something patently fucking stupid that just works out just to one-up the guys who pointed out how patently fucking stupid it is.

Don't portray the male-female dynamic as worker-management.

Sex isn't as powerful as many female authors like to think of it as with regards to its hold over men. If I'm guarding a bank and some sexy woman starts flirting with me for absolutely no reason, I'm gonna tell her to piss off, not flirt back and turn my eyes away from vault.

I know these seem a little oddly specific, but my main point is don't deny male characters agency.

Also, I went through fuck uni during the fucking Twilight fucking years, so I may be a bit biased and/or bitter.

LacklustreFriend · 2020-01-11T14:54:21+00:00

A bit late to the party, already some great comments (especially by plitox), but just wanted to add something.

Shame (and, by extension, honor and status) is a huge part of men's lives, and will often affect their relationships and decisions. Male shame is also not the exact shame as female shame. Related to the gender roles of hyperagency and hypoagency, male shame is about men doing (or failing to) something, while female shame is about women having something done to them. For example, in classic chivalry, the man's honor was to defend the woman's honor. Male shame in not being able provide for his family, male shame in not being good enough in a relationship, shamed when rejected etc.

Obviously all men are different, and people are complex, irrational and inconsistent beasts but it's certainly something to consider. When in doubt, you could always just ask a male friend or acquaintance for his perspective on a character you write. A second opinion never hurt anyone.

serpentineeyelash · 2020-01-11T15:46:32+00:00

This is one of many topics on which I’ve been meaning to write something for a while but haven’t got around to, so I may have to get back to you on this point.

But I think the biggest thing is, don't portray male characters as less moral than female characters. I often notice fiction portraying female characters as moral authorities who hold the male characters accountable to moral standards, to an extent that doesn't happen in reverse.

This was one of the big reasons why Jodie Whittaker's version of Doctor Who was so unpopular - not just because she was a woman, but because her different portrayal exposed this gender double standard. The male versions of the Doctor sometimes had to be morally reigned in by his (usually female) human companion, to stop him from "going too far" beyond human standards of morality. Jodie Whittaker never really receives that treatment; she is portrayed as always being in the right.

There's probably a lot more specific things that I could say but I'd have to get my thoughts together.

Sewblon · 2020-01-11T08:11:02+00:00

In my experience, male characters tend to fall into one of three archetypes: 1. The fool: John Falstaff or Homer Simpson. 2. The Superhuman, Edmund Dantes, or Superman, obviously. 3. The Idiot-Savant: The man who is smart when it comes to his work but stupid when it comes to everything else, like Sherlock Holmes. But none of them really have many doubts. The fool isn't smart enough or self-aware enough to have doubts. The Superman has no need for doubts. The Superman makes a beeline to whatever is right and true with no detours or stumbling. The idiot-savant switches between one and the other depending on the situation. I don't like it because it re-enforces the idea that males are incapable of self-awareness, sensitivity, or leading rich inner lives. When male characters do have doubts, its usually because they are an audience proxy meant to prompt an explanation for the benefit of the audience, rather than the character.

It would be refreshing to see a male character who is just racked with constant relentless doubt about everything from them-self to the world, whose character arc is actually about those doubts. To see what kind of background someone would need to have to doubt everything, including themselves, what kind of consequences that has on your life, what it takes to resolve all that characters doubts, and most importantly, whether they are actually made better off by having their doubts settled and their questions answered.

mtcapri · 2020-01-10T20:40:31+00:00

I think one of the things that tends to happen whenever an author of either gender writes characters of the other is that they focus on the external reality of the character, and never delve into their internal lives. Whether they're doing it unconsciously or consciously staying away from it, because they don't know how to write the internal life of an opposite-gendered character, it can make the character feel two-dimensional.

My advice would be, even if you're only ever describing the character's actions from an external POV and the narrative never actually enters their thoughts, still try to convey a bit of their internal life via your descriptions of their external behavior. Have concepts for what your male characters are like and try to make sure they aren't too stereotypical. I don't write too much anymore, but in the past, to avoid falling into stereotypes, I would try to make all my characters have at last one quirk about them that made them unique. More often than not, thinking about what that quirk should be resulted in much more than just the one quirk developing in my mind.

Melthengylf · 2020-01-11T11:38:59+00:00

As many other people said, I want less male characters that are imbeciles. And also less male characters that are the superheroes that sacrifice over everyone else.

Aaod · 2020-01-11T01:07:06+00:00

One of the problems I find with this is authors usually have their audience in the back of their mind and write for them and different people have different ways of thinking which means a book aimed at one audience or in a different genre will have the character and their internal thoughts be vastly different. Look at science fiction and military fiction both are written mainly aimed at men, but the characters and their internal workings are a lot different. You have to balance both writing for the audience and its genre as well as keeping in mind people having vastly different minds.

2020-01-11T23:50:41+00:00

This is going to sound a bit like a cop out, but I think the important thing to keep in mind here is that all men are different.

I suppose as an exercise, you could go into people's posting histories on Reddit (online anonymous comments aren't that far removed from intimate thoughts - and some even use their main accounts to post in NSFW subreddits) and try to imagine what that person is like in real life, what events transpired that made them think like that. Heck, even on this subreddit alone, you see that different guys have different worries and anxieties.

EDIT: Also, I figure you weren't going to do this anyway, but I've noticed that lately there have been a few TV shows and novels etc. where it seems the majority of male characters treat women like shit, and the female characters go "ugh, can you fucking believe it?" And while I can believe that some women have had bad luck with the men in their lives, it can get a bit alienating.

Forgetaboutthelonely · 2020-01-15T17:39:55+00:00

I want to contribute to this thread. But I really haven't seen any depiction of a male character I would call "bad"

Maybe it's because of something that /u/plitox_is_a_bitch notions towards. I've not read a lot of female oriented romance novels.

But those you just kind of expect to be bad.

And a lot of what I read is fantasy. Meaning that I'm used to practicing a willing suspension of disbelief.

It's a fantasy world. Maybe that awkward guy who only thinks of sex is just weird like that. I've known stranger people in waking life.

SO I guess my tip is this.

Use variety but don't generalize. Some guys may be horndogs. some may be evil. Some may be too nice. Some may be weak. Some may be strong.

People are varied.

Title	Any Tips for Writing....
Author	PrincessofPatriarchy
Upvotes	9
Comments	13
Date	January 10, 2020 7:48 PM UTC (6 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/comments/emw4bu/any_tips_for_writing/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/any-tips-for-writing.1064188 https://theredarchive.com/post/1064188

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