Feminism.

LondonDude123 · 2021-09-18T23:12:30+00:00

Feminism is INHERENTLY Anti-Male and Anti-Mens Rights. You may as well be asking African American Communities to not be against the KKK...

There are feminists who don't subscribe to the patriarchy theory, there a feminists who don't believe in male privilege, there are many different feminists,

No True Scotsman argument.

Bigotry is never ok, criticize individuals, not the entire ideology.

Criticizing an entire GENDER (49% of the entire world population) is completely okay though...

People arent anti-feminist for shits and giggles. They're anti-feminist because they look at what feminists have done and are doing, and are against it.

TrilIias · 2021-09-18T23:18:46+00:00

We constantly have to hear this, and it's tiring.

There are feminists who don't subscribe to the patriarchy theory, there a feminists who don't believe in male privilege

Where? I've never heard of these feminists. Even Christina Hoff Sommers subscribes to the idea that women were historically oppressed by men, and she's by far the most sane feminist.

Bigotry is never ok, criticize individuals, not the entire ideology.

I'll criticize both. Ideologies are not above criticism. It's not like we cherry pick a few things that some feminists say that others disavow, we criticize the essential aspects of feminism. Feminism is about interpreting society as class warfare between men and women, with men having always won and oppressed women. I think this interpretation of society is inaccurate, divisive, and hateful. I have yet to come across a feminist who doesn't agree with it to at least some extent.

63daddy · 2021-09-18T23:41:09+00:00

I see what you are saying, but the fact is most of the laws that discriminate against men are a result of mainstream feminism, and feminism will fight to maintain this discrimination. Anyone who promotes gender equality must be against feminist sponsored discrimination against males.

Your request is like saying let’s talk about the Holocaust victims but not speak negatively about the Nazis.

mgtowolf · 2021-09-18T23:10:27+00:00

The whole "ideology" is a lie though. They have always claimed feminism was one thing, while their actions showed otherwise. From the very first wave, it was an attack on men, while pretending to be something else to lure men into helping them out.

TrilIias · 2021-09-18T23:40:31+00:00

Copied from my previous response to similar posts:

I disagree with your definition of feminism. I understand feminism as the ideology that interprets society as "women are (or have been) oppressed by men, or at least by the patriarchy (men), specifically for men's benefit." I disagree with their interpretation of society, but I am convinced that this is the fundamental idea behind feminism. When surveys have been conducted, they've repeatedly found that while an overwhelming majority of both men and women support equality of the sexes, a small minority actually consider themselves feminists. You don't have to be a feminist to support equality, and you may even find yourself in conflict with feminists in the course of advocating for equality. On the other hand, I don't think you'll ever find a feminist who doesn't believe that women are oppressed by men.

I also think feminists will oppose equality if they must in order to maintain their oppression narrative. The issue of domestic violence is particularly relevant. Murray Straus and many other researchers have consistently found gender symmetry in domestic violence. Straus found that women were as likely as men to be perpetrators, and that they abused their male partners for the same reasons that men abused female partners, and only a small percent of partner violence by women can be explained as self-defense.

I watched an interview of Michael Paymar, one of the creators of the Duluth Model, the most commonly used model, and one that explicitly discriminates against men by casting them as the abusers and women as the victims. If focuses on helping victimized women, and helping men to stop their abuse. In this interview, Paymar states in no uncertain terms that the Duluth Model is feminist in nature. He also acknowledges that Murray Straus found gender symmetry in perpetration of domestic violence, but Paymar says that women are violent for different reasons, namely self-defense, so domestic violence is still a gendered issues.

So here we have an issue where we actually have a gender neutral problem, which is kinda surprising given that men are the perpetrators of all other non-partner violent crimes. We've had research for decades that proves it isn't a gender specific issue. Even Erin Pizzey, the founder of the first domestic violence shelter (also an opponent of feminism) said that it was a generational issue, not a gender issue, and that many of the women she helped were as violent or more violent than their male partners. Meanwhile you have feminists like Michael Paymar outright lying about this research, completely ignoring that Straus found gender symmetry in the motives of abusers, and pretending that domestic violence is a tool men use to perpetuate their own patriarchal male privilege. Katherine Spillar, executive editor of Ms. and co-founder and executive director of the Feminist Majority Foundation, said "domestic violence is just a clean up word for wife beating. It's not girls who are beating up on boys, it's boys who are beating up on girls."

These aren't radical feminists, they are mainstream feminists with actual power and influence. They spread these lies in order to maintain the current system, established largely by the Duluth Model, which creates victim shelters for women and abusers programs for men. There are 2,000 domestic violence shelters for women in the U.S., and when I last checked there was only one for men. What I see here isn't feminism advocating for equality. Equality is a casualty of their efforts to perpetuate their victim narrative.

Additionally, the National Organization for Women, has consistently opposed shared parenting in the US. The NOW chapter in Florida even managed to convince the governor to veto legislation that would have made equal parenting the default. This legislation had passed both the house and senate with bipartisan support and was popular with the general public.

When a men's rights group made some progress recently through the courts, only to eventually loose and attempt to appeal, the NOW and some other feminist organizations signed an amicus brief in support of their efforts. The problem is that it's very obviously lip service. All they can manage to do on this issue is sign a lousy amicus brief in support of an effort that they know is doomed to fail? All they want is plausible deniability. They want to be able to say they support equal conscription, but they don't actually want to do anything that would result in equal conscription. Perhaps even worse, their amicus brief framed male only conscription as sexism against women. I was fuming as I read it, it was some serious "women have always been the primary victims of war, women loose their husbands, their fathers, their sons in combat" nonsense.

If the NOW has enough power to sink popular legislation that would have resulted in equality, they certainly have enough power to actually make some progress on equality in conscription. But they won't, because feminism isn't interested in equality.

iainmf · 2021-09-19T02:37:31+00:00

You can be against feminists and feminist organizations, but being against feminism as a whole is wrong

So even if there is only one good feminist and the rest are bad, it's wrong to be against feminism?

maxlvb · 2021-09-19T05:37:16+00:00

Here we go again...

If you get offended by MRA's here in this sub talking about all that is wrong with feminism, then you are part of the problem that makes such talk necessary....

Feminists, women, and their white knight defenders need to stop holding men to standards they're personally and collectively unwilling to meet.

Feminism is never coming to help men. We no longer need to play nice. What are they gonna do? Not help us even MORE? So to paraphrase Feminists; no dick, no opinion. Fuck off, Big Sister. Men need Feminism like bicycles need fish.

Feminism was and is always a supremacy movement, and feminists will do what ever it takes to keep perpetuating it. This necessitates playing on people's emotions and painting MRA's as evil regardless of the truth. Therefore to succeed MRA's must expose the nature of feminism and give feminism zero moral ground.

There are hundreds of different kinds of feminism. But ALL feminists talk about feminism, and believe in feminism. That makes them all feminists.

HUZNAIN · 2021-09-19T04:25:18+00:00

The Men's Rights Movement is inherently not an Anti-Feminist movement. If it does, it will have activism and protests against feminism. The Men's Rights Movement only criticises feminism.

Not because you criticize something, you're automatically against it. Assuming it does, is a False Dichotomy fallacy.

Many MRAs identify themselves with being 'Anti-Feminist', including me. But that only makes their views as an individual person, not a collective of the movement.

There are also MRAs who are non-feminist, and MRAs who are feminists. Let's not diminish them.

tenchineuro · 2021-09-19T06:36:39+00:00

PSA: This is apparently a regularly scheduled concern troll.

Please carry on.

TheConnoissuer · 2021-09-19T00:54:03+00:00

Excuse me sir, you dropped your tampon

reddut_gang · 2021-09-19T13:02:27+00:00

if a feminist doesn't subscribe to patriarchy theory, doesn't believe in male privilege, are they even a feminist in the first place? I'll concede that a feminist doesn't always share the extremely misandrist views that their more prominent counterparts do but to call yourself a feminist and literally not believe in feminism? It's like saying you are part of BLM but you don't believe in racial equality.

DavidByron2 · 2021-09-19T16:02:51+00:00

Do you like Nazis too? Is it "bigoted" to lump all Nazis together?

there a feminists who don't believe in male privilege

LOL, no there aren't.

Good_Stuff11 · 2021-09-19T16:03:19+00:00

The irony is that what you say you want us to do is what “feminists” don’t. They’ve generalized men supporting other men as incel behavior and have literally changed “MRAs” into an incel term right off the bat. They’re not attacking individuals they’re literally doing what you’re telling us not to do.

Not only that they’ve coined incredibly sexist and generalizing terms like “mansplaining” and “manspreading” etc. and gaslight me whenever we talk about our problems. This is not individuals this is a big majority.

If you wanted feminism to be taken seriously you’d think they’d actually start with equality but nope, generalize and blame everything on men and act like victims whilst also saying the men that support other men’s well beings are incels who want to watch the world burn.

Ideology is not something everyone follows and god knows there are enough awful feminists to make criticizing feminism valid.

ZebraLionFish · 2021-09-19T01:06:39+00:00

I think the biggest thing we could do is be more positive and actually do work..most of the people here just complain about feminism.

bloodfuel · 2021-09-18T23:10:16+00:00

I hope this doesn't get downvoted into oblivion, it would only prove my point.

Title	Feminism.
Author	bloodfuel
Upvotes	0
Comments	127
Date	September 18, 2021 11:06 PM UTC (4 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/pqwkmm/feminism/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/feminism.1075663 https://theredarchive.com/post/1075663

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