My feminist teacher said this. Anyone wants to help me respond ?

ctenophoras · 2021-11-05T01:37:42+00:00

The fact that your teacher just assume that women are being fired bc they are pregnant is stupid. You can't just jump on conclusions like that, you have to take in the pov of the enterprises, it's not just 1+1=2. Also, people don't elude someone as president just bc of their gender, but bc of what they represent and their agenda, their is a lot of things to think about in a situation and not just gender(most likely never in developed countries).

TheRabid · 2021-11-05T01:40:23+00:00

Meh. I’d drop the program.

If you want to argue, I’d use the % of graduates, % of grants, % of laws, % of differences in court cases. I’d also ask the what laws or situations are specifically against women? I’d also as for the numbers that aren’t accepted or fired because they are pregnant. It’s easy to make a bullshit claim without the facts to back it up because it feels true. That’s why I’d use the numbers instead.

But if it were me, I’d drop the class and go on with your life.

Nyxvalore · 2021-11-05T01:56:20+00:00

"In many places women are discriminated against so feminism is needed."

You don't have sway over other countries. South Korean government doesn't care what a Canadian citizen thinks because Canadian citizens don't have any say in SK. This logic applies most about everywhere. Besides feminists rarely talk about what happens in those places she mentioned, instead they prefer talk about myths like the wage gap and raid MRA meetings.

"I would be fool to deny that men get discriminated too."

It is good that she at least acknowledges this but the discrimination men face is also pretty legal. For example in the Middle East, arguably one of the most patriarchal male dominated places, as a man I HAVE TO join selective service for a year, in this terrorist ridden geography. This is without discussing the suicide statistics,domestic abuse statistics, men's health statistics (yeah, men's health exists or supposed to exist. Shocker, I know.), divorce statistics, homelessness statistics and a few more. It seems that in the "patriarchal" world, being a man holds a lot of legal and social disadvantages that she doesn't seem to know about or address. Fun fact: some of the discrimination towards men and the subversion of the justice system was due to feminist influence such as the promotion of the Duluth model.

"Top universities are female dominated."

Correct and also incorrect. First of all, high paying STEM fields are male dominated (despite a lot of universities having special programs to get girls in STEM.). However it is also true that boys do worse in this current education system (at least in US and where I live.).

"But despite that why have we had only one female President?"

Oh I can count a number of reasons for that. First, presidency isn't about competency. It's a popularity contest. Your educational background or your intelligence doesn't matter too much. Second, a lot of presidents are backed by Old Money people or are Old Money themselves and they aren't women. Third, the very fact that you care about your Presidents gender means you are bad at politics. If their junks matter to you so much, you are probably harboring some sort of inferiority complex regarding your own gender. Same thing can be said about race. If a female presidential candidate brought anything else to the table aside from having a vagina, people would likely consider it more seriously.

"If female top achievers are higher in number why aren't there more women in power?"

Again, verrrrry simple: Women aren't top achievers overall. They are better academically but that doesn't translate to all the work places. To start with higher paying STEM education is dominated by men and women tend to go for social studies more often. Your Feminist Studies diploma isn't going to pave the way to Silicon Valley. Secondly men are significantly more competitive in the workplace overall and are more ambitious. Work more overtime, take less sick days, more likely to ask for raises and promotions etc etc... These are of course averages but overall men just achieve a lot more in the workplace.

"If women are well prepared why aren't they accepted or fired at jobs because they are pregnant?"

If you think the root cause of this is sexism, I can easily tell you have no idea how jobs work. A company isn't a dudebro club where you go and do men stuff, it's a place people invest in to make money. Money and profits is King in a company and they will lay off their own son if it brings profit. When you are pregnant and they feel you will let the workload down, they will let you go obviously. If you think a company will intentionally keep a man who has become a hindrance, I have no further words.

"Abuse towards men aren't the common rule."

Half a century ago, I could beat the absolute shit out of my wife and it wouldn't count as abuse. Men are in the same position where a lot of the injustices done to us isn't considered to be anything wrong because they are very convinced we are in power. We aren't. I have already counted several legal and social injustices men face and unlike the ones purported by feminists, these issues have their basis solely in gender.

"This is still a man's world."

Count me the legal advantages for being a man, I'll do the reverse. See who counts more? To quote Jordan Peterson, "What you're doing is you're looking at a small minority of hypersuccessful men and you are acting as if they represent all men.". This isn't a man's world, you have the right to run for office, get voted and vote for a woman. All women in democratic countries do. Think of the reasons why you aren't doing that and notice that those probably apply to most women and probably men too.

"They even get a say in woman's desire to practice abortion."

Unlike what the feminist rhetoric suggests, it isn't "your body your choice." We aren't discussing killing the pregnant woman, we are discussing the human life she has within her. The fact that the child is an inconvenience to you isn't enough of an excuse to off them for a lot of people. However even forgoing the morality of abortion, there is also equality. Since the basis of abortion is "consent to sex isn't consent to parenthood", are you also fine with the father cutting all physical and financial contact with the child by opting to abort his own parenthood? If not so, you don't want equality. You want privelege. Number two, regardless of your views on abortion the idea that a man cant have any say over this issue is simply absurd and sexist. Another disadvantage of being a man: Women act like they own the process of procreation and deny men any form of reproductive and parental rights.

"That's why feminism is needed."

It isnt needed. Feminism is an idea based off of demonizing men as the oprressors and making women victims (and also brave heroes for sticking up against said Patriarchy at the same time). Despite literally being translated to womanism, many feminists incorrectly claim it is a movement for equality. It isn't. It is a movement made solely for the benefit of women, often at the expense of men. If you were truly for equality, you would drop the movement that has been infested with misandrists (that some feminists excommunicate as being "Not real feminists.) and adopt Egalitarianism or Humanism.

Most of my points can be found on Dr. Shaym's YT channel. He points to sources and explains them in better quality than I, so if you're interested do go check him out. It's a classic in this sub.

Edit:I wrote this with lack of sleep and made quite a few errors in writing. Fixed those. Thanks for the gold and silver.

KMS__Scharnhorst · 2021-11-05T03:07:01+00:00

Your teacher has me up until the 1st paragraph half from there on its basically twisted facts

Longjumping-Back214 · 2021-11-05T02:51:59+00:00

Man ur seeing them from their gender ur not seeing people as individuals anyone who sees people by their gender not as individuals are nothing but bigoted ur bigoted ma'am

helgathehorriblez · 2021-11-05T15:00:37+00:00

I can’t take her seriously with spelling like that.

That being said- equal opportunity does equate equal outcome. Males and females have different interests and thus follow different paths. Simple.

Gretshus · 2021-11-05T16:18:21+00:00

It's safe to say that she's basing her argument on bias not fact. You can point that out and tell her that there are innate characteristics that make men and women different. Stuff like temperament, muscle mass, greater male variability hypothesis, etc...

one important point to make is to ask how she's ranking the hierarchy. She states that it's a man's world, but doesn't state what specific metrics indicate that. In terms of earnings, sure but what about depression? Suicide? Education? Why does she say that the things women excel at matter less than the things men excel at? Why is it necessarily good for men to be ceo's? Why is it bad for women to seek more flexibility with work hours? She's established a value hierarchy that isn't gender neutral in nature and isn't immediately obvious as to whether it's the one we ought to be measuring with.

MAVP1234 · 2021-11-05T04:39:25+00:00

There are many reasons why women don’t routinely occupy top positions. Mostly because of the extremely high number of hours needed to work in those positions and the extreme competitive nature of those worlds. Most women leave good careers and opportunities to pursue a family. It’s not always about oppression

shortman162cm · 2021-11-05T02:32:14+00:00

It's not about facts it's about how to gain sympathy through rhetoric and untruth

JoeSmith1907 · 2021-11-05T04:27:18+00:00

When she says we had only 1 female president you can point out that most men don't become president either and that many women want to get married and raise a family. If a woman wants that, she's probably not going to be able to do what you need to do to get to the very top. You might also want to point out that Hillary was a terrible candidate who was nominated only because she was a woman, and that there were a lot of unexplained deaths occurring to people who knew too much about the Clintons. You can also point out that Sarah Palin polled very well with male voters. You can also ask her where were the feminists when Sarah Palin was being tarred and feathered by the media, many of whom were female.

Iceman_Hottie · 2021-11-05T06:32:58+00:00

First of all I would thank her for being polite and taking the time.

I would question about the gap between educational achievement (in schools and universities) and practical achievement (positions of power) being due to other factors? For example that educational achievement being designed to skew towards the way girls and women learn (if you measure something with an inaccurate tool you will get inaccurate results). Another example, if the top university achievers are female is it possible that the issues you have mentioned could stem from very few women wanting to get in to those highly stressful positions?

My 3 main issues with feminism are:
1. It having no factual basis. E.g. wifes (so were husbands but less often) being sold was a way of divorce, not oppression. Same goes for owning property, as it was done to simplify the taxation system. The idea of men historically oppressing women is an assertion made based on the framework of oppressor/oppressed without looking at it's validity. If this oppressor/oppressed dichotomy was true, it would be impossible for feminism to be effective or even discussed (your classes would be banned).

The concept of "patriarchy" was a way for Simone de Beauvoire, to normalize abusive relationships, projecting her relationship dynamic with Sartre on to all men in history. A counterargument to that is the history of how Piere Currie refused the Nobel prize until Marie Currie was awarded it in equal measure, as she was no less critical to the work than he.

In essence I cannot in good faith support a movement that tries to normalize abusive relationships (Sartre and de Beauviore were also open supporters of paedophilia).

A significant chunk of feminists have openly advocated for gendercide against men. For example Andrea Dworkin, Valerie Solas, and it was also a major point of the "scum manifesto" that defined "second wave" feminism. A more contemporary and anecdotical example is the prominence of "KillAllMen" hashtag on twitter. The big issue with this is that only a few feminists have been against it, and they are the ones getting pushback rather than those calling for violence.

Something along these lines. It may be more useful to break these up in to two or more emails, because the issues with feminism can be too hard of a push making the teacher overly defensive, rather than engaging with the argument.

Hope this helps. I can provide some links if necessary.

Kaluwa_cutie · 2021-11-05T05:19:35+00:00

We elected the world's first women pm in our country. Just cuz she is a women. Look at what we got cuz of that.

3rdWorldCoutryForeverGang!!!!

VestigialHead · 2021-11-05T02:59:24+00:00

We have only had 1 female president because women are not natural leaders. So there is a much lesser percentage of women who will even head in that direction for a career. That has nothing to do with men.

Longjumping-Back214 · 2021-11-05T02:21:46+00:00

Are you sure you want to debate your teacher? What if she gets angry an fails you? I would never get into a debate about a sensitive subject like this with a teacher. I would just thank her for responding and say I’d think about what she said tbhngl.

hostergaard · 2021-11-05T08:50:30+00:00

Science work by predictions. You have a theory, if said theory is true then x should be observed, then you go out and see if you observe x. If you don't observe x then said theory is not valid. The least privileged in society is arguably the homeless. If men are privilege and women are not, then we should observe that most homeless are female. However, I he vast majority of homeless are male. Ergo, the privileged gender is not men, it's women. The objective facts does not fit the feminist agenda.

thisherepoo · 2021-11-17T15:58:46+00:00

The majority of what they use has been thought up by men, discovered by men, crafted by men and this is how we are thanked. I would be fine leaving them without the stuff men created to see if it is really worth it to try and punish us.

Title	My feminist teacher said this. Anyone wants to help me respond ?
Author	sterianitis
Upvotes	77
Comments	52
Date	November 5, 2021 12:50 AM UTC (4 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/AntiFeminists
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/antifeminists/comments/qmzcen/my_feminist_teacher_said_this_anyone_wants_to/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/AntiFeminists/my-feminist-teacher-said-this-anyone-wants-to-help.1085853 https://theredarchive.com/post/1085853

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3rdWorldCoutryForeverGang!!!!