Feminist site encourages women to smell their own poop to be more inclusive to trans-women. This is not satire. The article is serious. Have we reached peak crazy yet?

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"Have you ever tried to debate in trans communities?"

Yes and it always goes the same way, they rely on emotional thinking and evasion.

But that's beside the point, I don't expect a random "trans" person to know the academic arguments.

I expect academics to , and they don't have the answers to simple foundational questions that they should be able to answer.

I've been on this pony ride before, what you are going to do is attack my character or my intelligence or something along those lines.

What you aren't going to do is present an argument that proves my claims false.

For instance you will see many people claim gender identity as a concept is backed by science, but you will have no response when I tell you a concept based on subjectivity is excluded from being science.

Go ahead , prove me wrong , I want to be wrong , because otherwise the reality of what's happening to our academic institutions is horrible and keeps me up at night.

Go on give me some peace, I fucking dare you, here's your chance to really take the piss out of me

[–]PrincessMelissa04 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

So from what I can see every single thing you type relies on you expecting me to type something

You don't even know me and expect me to attack you lmao

You know why I'm on this sub and a feminist sub? I don't agree completely with the 2, but both have their issues that we as a society have to solve, so it's important to know both sides, even tought none of them do this and just attack the opposition

First of all what do you mean gender identity is a concept backed by science?

Second, I don't know where you are getting your information, but let's just try to understand the basis of gender identity

If you belive in this concept (which some people do, other don't) you will see that:

Sex and gender are 2 different concepts

Sex is the body and biological characteristics we are assigned at birth and based on the definition of the Uk's government "referring to the biological aspects of an individual as determined by their anatomy, which is produced by their chromosomes, hormones and their interactions"

Basically it is the characteristics we are assigned at birth, either we have been born a male, female or intersex (I believe intersex is a sex, because people born like this usually have different biological characteristics from males and females, different chromosomes and a different anatomy, since their organs can be different, like having a penis and an uterus or a vulva and a large clitoris, which looks like a penis Some intersex people might have fully developed characteristics of 1 sex and a mix of female and male hormones, chromosomes and even genes of the male and female sex)

https://sense.info/en/your-body/intersex

Besides this you also have the historical point, intersex people were seen in the middles ages, kinda as a third sex (I only say kinda, because they were forced to live as one sex and even today some face surgery which takes away characteristics and force them to live as one sex) : Examples: According to Henry de Bracton (jurist from the 13th century) on The Laws and Customs of England "Mankind may also be classified in another way: male, female or hemaphrodite" and for legal purposes "a hermaphrodite was classed with male or female according to the predominance of the sexual organs"

https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=896307 (Page 277)

Meanwhile, gender refers to the social constructed idea of femininity and masculinity, like attributes that we see and think that belong to either man or woman, but it also applies to gender identity (the way one sees itself, based on his relationships with others and their own behaviour) Based on the uk's government definition I used earlier: "a social construction relating to behaviours and attributes based on labels of masculinity and femininity; gender identity is a personal, internal perception of oneself and so the gender category someone identifies with may not match the sex they were assigned at birth"

Btw when you say that gender identity is based on subjectivity, you are falling under the concept that gender is socially constructed, no?

And also no trans people I have met has said that the whole concept of gender identity is based solely on science The concept of gender idenity is based on 2 things: Sex (which is the "science" part) and gender (the more personal and socially constructed part)

But don't you agree that our identity as human beings is shaped by how we feel and interact with others and the inherent characteristics attributed to us by nature?

Also, can you clarify what you don't agree in the concept of gender identity?

Uk's definition: https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/environmentalaccounts/articles/whatisthedifferencebetweensexandgender/2019-02-21

[–]AbbreviationsLow9863 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]PrincessMelissa04 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Defining what a woman or a men is, is really hard, because we don't have objective criteria to do so

Gender identity is personal to each individual, which means that every single one of us has different experiences, that are based on our own attributes and how we interact with others

So if a girl acts more boyish, does that make her less of a girl, no

If a guy acts more feminine, does that make him less of a boy, no

I have seen people try to define women or men by reproductive organs and biological characteristics, but that also doesn't give us a good concept on how to define what a woman or a men is If so, a man would be more of a men how much bigger his dick is o how much sperm it produces, does that make sense? no

You can't define what a woman or a men is

And also a women's gender identity is whatever she feels like it, if she identifies as a woman, but people don't usually think about it since the concepts of femininity and masculinity are learned when we are kids , so we assume it as the normal

And since gender identity is personal to each individual, we don't have an objective criteria that allows us to say that this exact characteristics make you a woman Those characteristics are personal to each individual

Also I asked you some questions on my last reply, I would like you to clarify your points

And from what you are saying you are right, it's hard to define what a women or men is, so what makes us a men or a woman isn't based on inherent characteristics or inherent by nature, it's how we feel like it, which is base don each individual

If you believe in what you just wrote, you agree with the concept that gender is socially constructed and that what makes us a men or a women aren't solely inherent characteristics, but a mix of them with personal feelings, attitudes, attributes and our way to see the world and others

[–]AbbreviationsLow9863 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]PrincessMelissa04 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Defining what a woman or a men is, is really hard, because we don't have objective criteria to do so

Gender identity is personal to each individual, which means that every single one of us has different experiences, that are based on our own attributes and how we interact with others

So if a girl acts more boyish, does that make her less of a girl, no

If a guy acts more feminine, does that make him less of a boy, no

I have seen people try to define women or men by reproductive organs and biological characteristics, but that also doesn't give us a good concept on how to define what a woman or a men is If so, a man would be more of a men how much bigger his dick is o how much sperm it produces, does that make sense? no

You can't define what a woman or a men is

And also a women's gender identity is whatever she feels like it, if she identifies as a woman, but people don't usually think about it since the concepts of femininity and masculinity are learned when we are kids , so we assume it as the normal

And since gender identity is personal to each individual, we don't have an objective criteria that allows us to say that this exact characteristics make you a woman Those characteristics are personal to each individual

Also I asked you some questions on my last reply, I would like you to clarify your points

And from what you are saying you are right, it's hard to define what a women or men is, so what makes us a men or a woman isn't based on inherent characteristics or inherent by nature, it's how we feel like it, which is base don each individual

If you believe in what you just wrote, you agree with the concept that gender is socially constructed and that what makes us a men or a women aren't solely inherent characteristics, but a mix of them with personal feelings, attitudes, attributes and our way to see the world and others

[–]LtLabcoat -1 points0 points1 point 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

But transphobic also means rejecting the concept of "gender identity" at an intellectual level.

Hold on, it means more than that. "Transphobic" doesn't just mean disagreeing with people who'd rather change gender than to break their previous gender's stereotype*, it also means disagreeing that changing gender should be a solution for gender dysphoria. The mental disorder. And like many mental disorders, it does not care about what the victim philosophically supports - it WILL make them feel significant distress about being "the wrong gender", no matter how much they want to believe gender identity shouldn't be a thing.

(*Though I'd still disagree about your stated belief anyway - I mean, I'd rather non-dysphoric people DID break their own stereotype than transition, but that comes with a lot of mistreatment by gender role conservatives, that I can't insist people should go through they don't want to.)

Edit: oh yeah, and thinking that nobody's willing to debate like I just did is... stupid. As evidenced by me. A lot of people don't - for basically the same reason people won't if you start a debate with "Hello, I'm racist" - but it's way too generalising to talk as if "they" as a group don't.

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