Discussion around gender pay gap from article

CawlinAlcarz · 2022-05-19T13:28:59+00:00

It's a gigantic horseshit lie.

None of the research that concludes that a legitimate pay gap that is discernible from the margin of error of the statistical methods used accounts for differences in specific job roles, age, or previous experience. None of them account for actual on the job performance/working hours.

The terms used to describe this concept get fucked around in order to continue to try to push the agenda that women are paid less than men for the same jobs. They are not. Women in the same roles performing the same duties as men, with the same experience are paid the same, for all intents and purposes of comparison. This is why they no longer call it a "WAGE gap" and instead call it a PAY gap.

None of these discussions account for the data that are in from Sweden where the selection of vocations is the most "free" from any sort of sex based pressure or limitation. In Sweden it turns out that when left to choose as freely as possible, with as much support, regardless of the sex of the person and regardless of the vocation they choose; women tend to choose vocations involving PEOPLE, men tend to choose vocations involving THINGS (e.g. STEM).

STEM vocations tend to have more scalable pay rates than many other types of vocations.

Further, fewer women work than men.

Further, MORE men work the lowest paid, most dangerous jobs than women do.

Yes it's true, that more men are employed in the most highly paid, most powerful positions than women, but this is by virtue of women's choices.

Regarding political positions, the reality is that women actually comprise MORE voters than men, so if WOMEN wanted more WOMEN in political power, WOMEN would vote them in.

Regarding powerful and high paid positions like CEOs and such, men and women in general have an equal opportunity to achieve such positions, though men tend to desire those positions more than women. https://www.pnas.org/doi/pdf/10.1073/pnas.1502567112

In the end, the WAGE gap itself doesn't exist - it's a myth. The PAY gap is an obfuscating term used intentionally to make an obvious and benign fact that all the women in the world don't earn as much money as all the men in the world look like something nefarious. This is obvious to anyone who thinks about it for 5 minutes when you consider that fewer women work than men.

What isn't so obvious until you look at the data is that of those women who do work, they tend to choose vocations which pay less, and of those who choose vocations with higher potential for better pay and power, women desire those higher paid positions less (seeing them as conflicting with their own "life goals" which tend to be around family and raising cildren) than men (whose life goals are much more oriented towards wealth and power - in part so that they can attract women) and subsequently pursue them less.

EricAllonde · 2022-05-19T13:30:18+00:00

There is no "gender pay gap", there is only a gender earnings gap caused by a gender personal choices about work gap.

When women work equal hours to men, make the same choices about work and the same sacrifices as men, they earn exactly the same.

These studies never account for all the choices that men & women make, which is the only reason they show an earnings gap. They aren't a true apples-to-apples comparison.

When you account for the differences in choices made, the gap disappears. The final word on the question of different earnings for the exact same work was the Korn Ferry Hay Group study which collected data on 8 million employees across 33 countries. It accounted for most, but not all, differences in choices and calculated a worldwide average earnings gap of just 1.4%.

https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2017/08/01/are-women-paid-less-than-men-for-the-same-work

Even that study didn't factor in that women take more vacation days per year, on average, than men do - even before they have kids. Each extra vacation day produces about 0.5% in earnings gap. More research is needed to nail down the exact difference in vacation days between the two genders, but a difference of about 3 days per year would fully account for the remaining 1.4% earnings gap.

The TL;DR is: feminist claims that women are paid less than men for the exact same work are nonsense, just like virtually all feminist claims. Ignore them. Feminists are shockingly innumerate and they make these claims based on feelings alone.

BTW, the reason that men & women make different choices about work is not due to some wacky conspiracy theory about "patriarchy" or such nonsense. It's simply the fact that society pressures men to maximize their income, but does not do the same to women.

Women select men to date & marry based on income, but the reverse is not true. Women delay having children until their husband/boyfriend has a stable, and rising, income. Men are constantly judged based on their earnings; women are not.

This pressure influences lots of decisions that men make about work, such the men will make greater sacrifices for income, on average, than women are willing to make.

Men work more hours of overtime.

Men are more likely to take remote, dirty or dangerous jobs, such as working at a mine site or on an oilfield. Those jobs pay more than equally skilled but more comfortable jobs close to home.

Men are more willing to be available to work on demand outside normal office hours when that is necessary. Companies pay more for that flexibility.

Men will even commute further than women are willing to; an average of 2 hours per week longer commute time. In other words, men are willing to travel further from home for a higher-paying job than women are.

I could go on, there are a heap more of these factors that affect earnings. The bottom line is that every working person finds their own balance between "soft" factors like comfort, convenience, work/life balance, safety etc and income. To make a higher income, you need to sacrifice more of those appealing "soft factors" - and men are simply more willing to do that than women are.

OldEgalitarianMRA · 2022-05-19T13:17:04+00:00

I studied statistics with a real pro for a year and he taught me when reading about anything the first thing to read is the attestation. If the there is obvious bias then the study is not worth the paper it's written on.

Paying women less than men is illegal and has been for decades.

AAUW: American Association of University Women

The most biased org in feminism.

TitanicPat · 2022-05-19T14:28:27+00:00

Another day, another imaginative pay gap re-count...

HR departments across the land can see exactly how much each employee is paid. They are also staffed with an over-representation of women.

So, why aren't we up to our eye balls in stunning and brave whistle blowers, with indisputable, smoking gun evidence of women suffering pay discrimination?

throwawayincelacc · 2022-05-19T15:22:35+00:00

The same shit was published in Canada a few years back. The government reported that the total income of all women was around 70% of the total income of all men. This could very easily be explained by stay at home mothers / women who decide not to work. What did the media do? They cherry picked this data, and wrote articles that women were earning 70% of what men earn for the same job. That's right. Nowhere in the stats was it ever mentioned or discussed that it was for the same job. Nor was that even the stat. But female supremacists around the world misrepresented these government stats to no end to push for more pay for the same job. That's why when any company studies its own pay structures they never find that women are underpaid compared to men. It was all a lie in the first place.

ReaperJuggie · 2022-05-19T12:03:01+00:00

Page 14

"Men and women may be steered toward diﬀerent industries and occupations. Sectors and jobs where men tend to work are, on average, better compensated than those where women tend to work. Moreover, due to work and home structures still built around the presumption that women will be primary caretakers, women are more likely to drop out of the workforce temporarily as a result of parenting or other family obligations."

The hardest jobs pay the most. I dont really see women swinging hammers or sticking their hands in breaker boxes.

rahsoft · 2022-05-20T10:00:02+00:00

my best suggestion is to go and read up on thomas sowell who was looking at this through the data( i think he said you should be comparing married vs single women first). he debunked all of this as far back as the 70s(?)

and then there is the classic Occam razor

if women were paid less for doing the same job then businesses would be employing them before men( eg no lack of jobs for women).

No matter how much virtue signalling goes on with businesses their bottom line is their priority. look at how they are screwing up recruitment using AI tools.. to lower their costs..

rahsoft · 2022-05-20T10:11:18+00:00

add a little note

I believe it was Sweden that sometime ago decided to give funding to encourage men and women to go into roles outside of their gender stereotype.

it worked for a while until the funding stop and then those people( men and women) left those jobs to go back into "stereotypical roles"

Title	Discussion around gender pay gap from article
Author	Saysonz
Upvotes	0
Comments	42
Date	May 19, 2022 11:54 AM UTC (4 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/ut1q3q/discussion_around_gender_pay_gap_from_article/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/discussion-around-gender-pay-gap-from-article.1119368 https://theredarchive.com/post/1119368

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