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Proving a connection to sex trafficking is a valid defense for first degree murder, Wisconsin Supreme Court rules

imextremelymoderate

July 8, 2022
3 upvotes
/r/MensRights
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10986139/Wisconsin-court-rule-immunity-sex-trafficking-case.html
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Post Information
Title Proving a connection to sex trafficking is a valid defense for first degree murder, Wisconsin Supreme Court rules
Author

imextremelymoderate

Upvotes 3
Comments 47
Date July 8, 2022 6:56 PM UTC
(4 years ago)
Subreddit Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/vuhzu8/proving_a_connection_to_sex_trafficking_is_a/
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/proving-a-connection-to-sex-trafficking-is-a-valid.1122546
https://theredarchive.com/post/1122546
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Comments

[–]alclarkey 16 points17 points18 points 4 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

Not men's rights related, unless you're suggesting men have the right to rape young girls repeatedly and force them to do porn without consequence, in which case GTFO of here, we don't want you here.

[–]Triangle_Pants 3 points4 points5 points 4 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

Here you go.

https://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/vuhzu8/proving_a_connection_to_sex_trafficking_is_a/iff7up1?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share&context=3

[–]alclarkey 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

I knew for the last 2 years about this data, and I still support her. Yes what she did was murder. But then I think murdering a sex trafficker is justified, especially your own sex trafficker.

[–]Triangle_Pants 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Well, yeah.

Perhaps, given this is an MRA sub, the best takeaway would be that this wouldn't go down the same way if the genders got reversed.

[–]alclarkey 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

There's another angle too. What if some actual murderers get let go because people are willing to accept sparse evidence that the victim was a sex trafficker?

[–]alclarkey 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I already responded to this earlier but another thought crossed my mind. You wonder how this would go down had it been a man on the other side? Well, this is the same county that tried everything under the sun to try and convict Kyle Rittenhouse even though they had video clearly showing him innocent.

[–]imextremelymoderate[S] -2 points-1 points0 points 4 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

How is this comment being upvoted? Too much emotionality in here, not enough reason. No one is defending rape here. You just got triggered with the r-word

[+]-Soggy-Potato- 7 points8 points9 points 4 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

Good news, not sure why it’s posted here tho

[–]Triangle_Pants 3 points4 points5 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

As was said to that reply-er earlier...

https://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/vuhzu8/proving_a_connection_to_sex_trafficking_is_a/iff7up1?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share&context=3

[+]-Soggy-Potato- 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Not seeing a link to mens rights though

It’s just a vigilante type situation, 17 year old getting revenge on their traffickers

Point still stands that its good news

[–]alclarkey 3 points4 points5 points 4 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

You're right this has nothing to do with Men's rights.

[–]imextremelymoderate[S] -1 points0 points1 point 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

It's a double standard. Would a man be allowed to use such a defense to murder a woman. This type of double standard is also found in murder cases where domestic violence is involved

[–]alclarkey 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Yes. He would, if he can prove that he had been trafficked by her.

[–]Razorbladekandyfan 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Bullshit. And you know it.

[–]Efficient_Creme_3067 3 points4 points5 points 4 years ago (14 children) | Copy Link

I’m not sure what the OP is saying here. Are you saying that a sex traffic victim doesn’t have a right to escape their captivity, if the only means to do so is killing their captor? I’m slightly confused on the OPs intent with posting this story.

[–]II11llII11ll 7 points8 points9 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

It’s cause the headline here is an unfortunate reframing of the story. This was a VICTIM of sex trafficking who got some revenge on her captor, not some internet sleuth who proved someone was smuggling others. The judge ruled that it was justified and frankly I’m with the judge. This is not the hill I would want to die on.

[–]TracyMorganFreeman 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Given their captor was asleep at the time, it wasn't their only vector for escape.

[–]Apellosine 3 points4 points5 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Given she wasn't in captivity at the time and travelled to his house with a handgun.

[–]Efficient_Creme_3067 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Naturally, this is a detail they will leave out of the article. No need letting truth get in the way of the narrative….

[–]Apellosine 3 points4 points5 points 4 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

She wasn't in captivity at the time. She took a handgun to the man's house. From the article:

"She traveled from Milwaukee to Volar's home in Kenosha, shot him in the head, burned down his house and stole his BMW, according to court documents. Kizer was 17 at the time, old enough to be considered an adult in Wisconsin's criminal justice system. She faces multiple charges, including arson and first-degree intentional homicide, which carries a mandatory life sentence."

[–]1throwaw4y432 4 points5 points6 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Textbook first degree murder

[–]gil-galad5150 -2 points-1 points0 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Don't start nuthin' won't be nuthin.

[–]gil-galad5150 -1 points0 points1 point 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Personally think the kid deserves a damn medal...but that's just me.

[–]alclarkey 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Yes, I knew this since for last couple of years. Yes it technically was murder, but then to me murdering a sex trafficker is justified. Even more so your own sex trafficker.

[–]imextremelymoderate[S] 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

A sex trafficking victim has the right to escape, but not to then go out of their way to murder somebody after having escaped

[–]Efficient_Creme_3067 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Yeah, seems they left out a few key details out of the article. Sounds more like retribution than escape.

[–]Diesel-66 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

It's a defense, she wasn't ruled not guilty. You can use almost anything as a reason for self defense

[–]alclarkey 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

You're right, and I've been aware of this case and on the side of the girl the whole time. And I am ecstatic at this outcome.

[–]Razorbladekandyfan 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

No, he is saying that its weird thats the case only if its a woman.

[–]1throwaw4y432 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

This seems utterly ridiculous, it was clearly fisrt degree murder and not only does that law seem strange, but it is not even being applied here properly since she went to his house to intentionally kill him and therefore couldn't have been "...connected to being trafficked" in any direct way - like being held captive or raped and fighting to escape. Unless these are just activist judges who are setting up an extremely flimsy interpretation of a questionable law? which is entirely possible. "Its connected to trafficking cause I only did it cause I was trafficked!"

[–]alclarkey 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Her case wasn't proved yet. The only thing the Wisconsin SC decided was that she was allowed to try that defense.

[–]imextremelymoderate[S] 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

There was a video on YouTube where a lady claimed she was a victim of sex trafficking but the reality was she just grew up in a shitty neighbourhood and chose to work at a massage parlor because the money was so good

[–]gil-galad5150 -1 points0 points1 point 4 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

One less oxygen theif , but wtf was the kid doing on backpage in the first place at 16 ? .

[–]Triangle_Pants 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

This.

https://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/vuhzu8/proving_a_connection_to_sex_trafficking_is_a/iff7up1?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share&context=3

[–]AffectionatePapaya13 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Obviously she wanted to be trafficked so she went on BP to look for one duh lol.

[–]gil-galad5150 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Yeah like obviously kids want to be trafficked duh lol

[–]DavidByron2 -3 points-2 points-1 points 4 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

So prostitutes can just murder anyone male now?

[–]alclarkey -1 points0 points1 point 4 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

I'm interested to see your thought path that brought you to this idiotic conclusion.

[–]jayval90 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

The vast majority of alleged "sex trafficking" is some form of adult prostitution. This isn't to undermine the seriousness of the issue of sex trafficking or even prostitution, but to emphasize the seriousness of lying about such things to garner increased support or "awareness."

So yes, in this case, it might make sense and garner sympathy to side with the victim. But every bad law and bad precedent has a sympathetic victim at its head. If this is applied indiscriminately to "sex trafficking" cases, we already have a long history of extending that to adult prostitution.

For the record, I think that all prostitution should be illegal, and prosecutable for all parties involved as appropriate. If there was kidnapping and force involved, then of course that changes the dynamic and the ruling should be appropriate to each person's involvement. But the idea of making policy out of singular emotional instances of criminal victims is horrible precedent and will result in an overall decline of law and order.

[–]alclarkey 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

The vast majority of alleged "sex trafficking" is some form of adult prostitution.

I don't disagree, but you'd have to agree that a legit victim of sex trafficking should have a little bit of latitude when it comes to defending herself.

But every bad law and bad precedent has a sympathetic victim at its head. If this is applied indiscriminately to "sex trafficking" cases, we already have a long history of extending that to adult prostitution.

It's murder. The courts tend to take that a little more seriously. So while trying to shoehorn every illicit sexual encounter for money into the sex trafficking envelope might work for lesser crimes, not so much for murder.

For the record, I think that all prostitution should be illegal, and prosecutable for all parties involved as appropriate.

Why?

But the idea of making policy out of singular emotional instances of criminal victims is horrible precedent and will result in an overall decline of law and order.

Why? It happens all the time, and it isn't always wrong. That's why we have so many laws and concepts named after people. If it happens to one person that makes it to the court room, how many other people is it happening to behind the scenes? If there are other girls in a situation similar to hers, this may give them the confidence they need to extract themselves from their situation. In fact, Crystul not only helped herself, but the guy she killed was also doing it to multiple other girls.

[–]DavidByron2 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

All they'd have to do is claim they were "trafficked" by their murder victim. It's not like the corpse is going to disagree.

[–]Triangle_Pants 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Think before you mock, Redditor.

https://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/vuhzu8/proving_a_connection_to_sex_trafficking_is_a/iff7up1?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share&context=3

[–]AffectionatePapaya13 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

She said he trafficked her. She also said she met him off backpage at 16. She was already a prostitute before meeting him, she just wants to see if she can get away with murder lol.

[–]alclarkey 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Well, yeah, the ruling didn't specify that she wasn't guilty, only that she could use the affirmative defense for murder, it's up to a lower court judge/jury whether they buy it.

[–]AffectionatePapaya13 -1 points0 points1 point 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Her story doesn't add up. She met him on backpage at 16 but he sex trafficked her? Sounds like she got in herself and he was her regular. She probably made a bet with a friend of hers she could get away with murder lol.

[–]imextremelymoderate[S] 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

And she probably will because women are seen as victims and are not held accountable. They often have license to murder

[–]PracticalPlastic4123 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

This story is weird as heck. So she goes to a sex trafficking page willingly on the dark web, meets a guy who pimps her out all while having a boyfriend that seems to know what's going on, she tells him he is going to kill the dude with a gun and he doesn't even do or say anything, she then says she didn't intend to kill the guy but did plan the arson beforehand, and stole the guy's car leaving hers at the scene.

This is lacking a lot a context and information.

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