What is best for the child in the case of paper abortions?

maxlvb · 2022-10-06T21:25:18+00:00

Just another wont someone (the someone being exclusively men) think of the children! post whenever men having the same reproductive rights as women currently have is discussed...

In reality this question just shows how so many people (the OP included?) regard children primarily as a money earning/income source for women...

“Justice therefore dictates that if a woman makes a unilateral decision to bring pregnancy to term, and the biological father does not, and cannot share in this decision, he should not be liable for 21 years of support. Or, put another way, autonomous women making independent decisions about their lives should not expect men to finance their choices.”

Karen DeCrow feminist lawyer.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karen_DeCrow

If women’s partial responsibility for pregnancy does not obligate them to support a fetus, then men’s partial responsibility for pregnancy does not obligate them to support a resulting child.

Elizabeth Brake, political philosopher

I don’t believe there is anything good about feminism that seeks to enslave men in name of a women’s right to choose.
It doesn’t make sense to respect women who treat men like an ATM.

Feminists feel the same way about forced parenthood responsibilities as they feel about forced genital mutilation. As long as it's not happening to women, they don't care.

Qantourisc · 2022-10-06T21:28:01+00:00

to ensure the well-being of the child?

- We consider this to be the sole burden of the mother. Her choice, her problem. And we let them deal with the cost.

- Or we truly value the well-being of the child, and support the mother financially and otherwise.

2) The child isn't paying the price of men's freedom, the child is paying the price of the mothers decidsion.

3) Men can't have a child without the woman, so euu I'm lost to your point.

*1 Assuming no 100% safe anti-conceptions, and a lot aren't.

WhereProgressIsMade · 2022-10-06T21:05:05+00:00

What is best for the child in the case of paper abortions?

The title is a loaded question similar to how loaded this question is: "What is best for the fetus in the case of abortion?"

paper abortions for men

I don't know why it couldn't be constructed to be gender neutral. Having the option available for women would protect them for the cases where they decide to give birth and surrender the baby to the father to prevent the woman from having to pay child support to the father.

the child would grow up in poverty. This is not okay and the child should not have to pay the price of men's freedom.

You can make the same case for a married couple irresponsibly bringing children into the world.

I guess the question here is how much are child support payments an incentive? When they're barely enough to cover the added expesnses of a child, probably not really a factor at all. But when there's a possibility of getting a % of a man's income for spermjacking him, that's a pretty perverse incentive.

You don't have to try to make abortion the same as financial abortion. You can't anyway. Just make legal parental surrender available to both men and women. Or make it so pregnacies default to opt-out. You go in for your 6 week prenatal visit, get a standard paternity test and each parent is asked to pick:

Yes, I want this baby, but only if the other parent also answers yes. If they answer yes, we will each have 50% responsibility and authority.
Yes, I want this baby, and am willing to take 100% responsibility for it if the other parent answers no.
No, I do not want this baby. I will have no parent rights or responsibilities by choosing this.

Two of the founding principals in the USA is that it is better to let some guilty go free than to punish the innocent and personal responsibility.

We need something for the cases where a grown adult woman rapes a 13 year old boy and the boy gets 21 years of child support and no visitation or custody for it through no fault of his own. This is punishing an innocent party.

Or the cases of spermjacking.

Or the cases of paternity fraud where guys get to pay child support for kids that aren't even theirs.

Back in the '70s in the US it was hoped that the new wide availability of abortions and the pill would reduce the number of children being raised by single parents. Instead it has steadily increased. Ever metric shows these kids do worse than kids raised in a stable home with both parents. The status quo isn't the right path. So if you really care about kids, we need to try to find ways to undo the current incentive structure that is creating all thse kids being raised by a single parent.

In theory, this would go down with legal parental surrender available to both mothers and fathers. Less women would try pregnancy as a way to get guys to stay. Currently it's low risk for them since whether he stays or goes, she still gets financial support from him. We need women to be more responsible for their decisions on the guys they choose and on bringing children into the world.

NutsLikeMelons · 2022-10-06T23:33:04+00:00

If a woman can’t afford a child she chooses to have alone that is her fault. Not my fault, not the father’s fault and not the government’s fault. You want women to be 100% free to choose whatever they want, they are responsible and accountable for that choice. Stop trying to shift the responsibility to men.

In summary - the child is the financial responsibility of the parent(s) who decided they wanted to have the child.

Karissa36 · 2022-10-06T23:51:49+00:00

It's a slippery slope like euthanasia. When does the right to die become the duty to die? Assume that you do successfully convince legislators that the child's interests are not significantly affected by the absence of a father, and that your personal freedom is more important.

What about the personal freedom of a mother who decides she doesn't want you involved? Can she just say no thanks to child support and blow you off forever? Keep in mind you just convinced people that fathers were not that important to raising children. So why should the mother have to be exposed to ongoing conflict? They can do just fine without you, right?

When does the right to skip out become the duty to skip out?

All_the_pumpkies · 2022-10-07T12:32:36+00:00

If a father doesn’t want to raise the child and is forced too he will probably not be a good father and leave the child with trauma and anger

Reddit1984Censorship · 2022-10-06T20:50:44+00:00

If needed the financial support should come from state wealthfare, a man should not have to pay to be free.
The same can be said about having a minor consequence imposed on regular abortions as to still ensure that people practice safe sex and no cheating with prevention. So whatever consequence you wish to have, there should be the same or equivalent on the regular abortion.
I cant thing of anything extra to do to ensure the wellbeing of the child that isnt already done.

CoolDEpot · 2022-10-07T09:08:44+00:00

Is not perfect but is of course much much better than what we have now.
To ensure the well being of the child maybe making it easier for the mother to get a new dad to adop her child, like easy paperwork or being a free/discoutned service? Im not sure if that actually helps i would imagine it does although im not familiar with the details of adoption, whats the risk of the adopting parent to be abusive and so on.

DavidByron2 · 2022-10-06T21:04:36+00:00

Well first for the well being of the child you'd need to seize the means of production from the rich and the billionaire class and give it to the people.

Honestly if you can manage that you don't need to worry about anything else.

Throning · 2022-10-06T23:05:13+00:00

The US has some huge barriers (most of them set up by feminism and taken as precedent by the courts) to actually make it happen - and you can almost guarantee that the idea would be fought against severely by feminism.

The courts already play to the feminist's tune - custody, child support, alimony, etc. - that a lot has to change before paper abortions would enter the realm of possibility here.

Particularly as the courts and judges would look at it from the economic/political side of things. If a father signs away his duties & responsibilities to the child, then how does the mother raise the child? Welfare? Other state funding? If she's lucky she's wealthy enough to not need welfare, but it puts a lot of risk to increasing taxes to support programs already in place (for single mothers) that would likely end up needing more. The last thing judges want to be responsible for is increasing taxes for the state - and as said, there needs to be a lot of other change (particularly within the family courts which feminism has by the balls, literally).

Would it be nice? Absolutely. I just don't think it's going to happen within our lifetimes.

ABBucsfan · 2022-10-08T15:30:20+00:00

One thing I never see mentioned because it probably seems absurd in hookup culture. Only way to protect yourself is be comfortable enough with who you're getting into bed with to have the awkward conversation about what they'd do if contraceptives failed. That's not just in the guy either, you're both taking a risk assuming. If you're looking for an abortion, if she's looking for future financial support (cause some goes uncollected) then have the adult conversation. Unfortunately one night stands are riskier by nature (not just pregnancy but STDs). You still run thr risk of changing minds, but it's one reasonable step in a committed relationship

Also agree with another poster many young men would be possibly living in regret later. I'd imagine what people are proposing would have to be done I. The first trimester so she'd know whether to go expect your support or not. Would be no obligation to let you back in at any point after that. On the other hand you wait past that point and decide you don't want it? Too late for an abortion you're on the hook

Title	What is best for the child in the case of paper abortions?
Author	Prestigious-Set-8902
Upvotes	3
Comments	40
Date	October 6, 2022 7:57 PM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/xxen7c/what_is_best_for_the_child_in_the_case_of_paper/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/what-is-best-for-the-child-in-the-case-of-paper.1134838 https://theredarchive.com/post/1134838

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