It’s time to talk about the social outcasting that is done to autistic boys.

MachoManShark · 2022-10-23T02:08:41+00:00

cola et al 2020, sex differences in first impressions made by boys and girls with autism

autistic boys rated more negatively than autistic girls by novel conversation partners. trend holds when boys and girls have equal severity of symptoms as assessed by clinician.

not sure if this is helpful to anyone, but seeing this post reminded me that i have this. figured sharing is caring.

BloomingBrains · 2022-10-23T05:36:08+00:00

I just want to say as a non-autistic person that I know 100% what your are going through is real, simply because people have accused me of being autistic whenever I talked about problems I'm having. Never had a girlfriend? Well then you must be a socially inept moron who doesn't understand social cues. Shy? Introverted? Well everyone knows only autistic people can be shy and introverted. By misusing a label like that to explain someone's perceived personal failings, and then also to attack them for it, they reveal their bigotry towards people of that group.

Maybe part of the reason for this is because of the infamy of people like Chris Chan, who give autism a bad name and don't represent well what most autistic people are like. It also probably has something to do with the postmodern belief that males are inherent predators. Ergo, an autistic girl might just, I don't know, laugh inappropriately and not make eye contact. But obviously if an autistic male violates a social norm its going to be something like touching women without their consent, right? That is how the logic goes. Basically, people look for any excuse to write off a man as a threat, and autism is one hell of an easy target.

whosayesa · 2022-10-23T00:24:02+00:00

I get what you mean, I have had similar experiences with my Asperger's. I don't think I had it as bad as you. I at least had one awesome friend, who I'm still friends with.

There is a lot of progress to be made with how people treat those who are on the spectrum.

One thing I do want to say is I feel like you're undermining women's experience of being on the spectrum. Due to being diagnosed less often an later in life, it can lead to issues with being disconnected from themselves and sometimes being taken advantage of. Though I believe, in a different way to is guys.

However, I think you're at least partially right about women on the spectrum being more accepted socially. This isn't to say they don't have struggles with that. But as far as I understand, for the same reasons it's harder to diagnose them, it's harder to see how they're different. This can definitely help with being socially accepted and making friends.

Socialising and friendships are really important for your while life, but especially as kids. It's a terrible shame how people on the spectrum can go without this, simply because we're "weird". I hate it and it's a struggle we shouldn't have to go through.

I agree, things should change. People should be understanding of difficulties autistic people have with social cues, eye contact, sensory stimulus and more. That kind of understanding can help people, both autistic and non-autistic. Just because you have a few different traits/mannerisms, shouldn't make you an outcast. Though the stigma still does have this effect. I don't think you should dismiss autistic women's struggles, they're on our side, we should extend our empathy. But yes, I do think autistic boys are more likely to be outcasts. It's unfair, and completely unacceptable in my opinion. It can really hurt and affect you for a long time. No kid should go through that, they should be accepted.

Sorry for what you're going through man. By the sounds of it we've had not identical but similar experiences. Hope you get real, actually good friends along your life. And good luck learning to spot those fake friend twats.

Edit: Sources are good, should always include them

https://molecularautism.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s13229-020-00336-3#:~:text=Results,equivalent%20true%20social%20communication%20ability).

celanthe · 2022-10-23T04:34:55+00:00

Glad to hear you got out of those social circles that were problematic.

I'm an autistic guy myself and I can relate to your post, but I will say that the other poster who mentioned that autistic girls aren't your enemy is 100% right. It's hard for anyone who is autistic to make friends. Don't treat it as an "us vs. them" thing.

What are your hobbies? Are there any after school clubs or anything like that you'd be interested in? Do you play any online games or anything like that? There's a lot of online communities and gaming communities that are welcoming to neurodivergent people, but as always watch out for creeps and manipulative weirdos.

I had about five really good friends at your age and we're still friends 25+ years later. Once you find those people, you'll know. I hope you do. I know of a few communities for teens interested in cyber security if that's something you might be interested in. Happy to get you connected to the folks who organize that. Best of luck.

Metrodomes · 2022-10-23T14:09:41+00:00

They're needs to be more education and inclusivity for people who aren't neurotypical. Same goes for people who aren't heterosexual or cis, or people who aren't white. We're slowly getting more education there, but unfortunately not enough is done to tackle ableism yet. Its so baked into our society on so many levels. Doesn't help that we also live in a capitalist system where your worth is defined by how much you contribute to a society based on neurotypical norms and expectations.

I also want to add that kids are dumb. As you get older, more people will grow wiser and hopefully learn more about the neurodiversity. You'll also have more opportunities and power to use in finding better people. Right now, in school, your unfortunately stuck with the people around you, but it changes as you grow older. But that doesn't excuse their behaviour ofcourse. Tons of stupid things I said and did when i was younger that I regret now because I know better. I can't undo that harm, but I do try to learn more; developing my own knowledge of various marginalised communities and trying to work alongside them and support them where I can.

BKEnjoyer · 2022-10-24T22:24:21+00:00

I have a different experience than you being on the spectrum, but it was still challenging. School always came easy to me so I never knew I had to try with anything. My brother has more severe autism than I do and I never wanted to be thrown into that pile. I was always very aloof and uncomfortable/asocial, with low self esteem. I didn’t know I had to try to make friends and be an active player in my life. Eventually I went to college, after high school totally sucked, and I ended up getting Title IX’d even though I didn’t do anything sexual. It’s really a challenge now that I’m 25 and have missed out on so much. I can go deeper but it may take a long time.

I also very much agree with you on the ending point, autistic guys are pigeonholed so much. And autistic girls seem to be so “normal,” check out that chick who was on the Bachelor. Like she was in a sorority and all this stuff in college, whereas I didn’t have a necessarily good experience then.

MelissaMiranti · 2022-10-23T20:53:07+00:00

I would urge you to keep in mind that middle school is a tough time for everyone, and even more so for people who are not neurotypical, whether they have autism or not. I believe things will get better for you as you go further into high school, especially if you make yourself known as a person who is honest and a loyal friend. That's been the case for the people with autism in my life, both of whom are men with decent circles of friends.

If you find a social situation that you're having trouble in, ask the person who seems to be most amenable to your questions what is going on. If you make it clear, using "I" statements about your trouble or confusion, people tend to take that better. "I" statements work better than "you" statements in most cases.

"I am confused, what does that term mean? I have never heard it before."

Another socializing tip is that people like it when you ask very surface level things about them to start off, like what they've been doing recently, and you remember that for later. The next time you meet them, ask how the thing they talked about went, or if anything happened with that, if it seems appropriate.

At the same time, people do like hearing about things you're interested in, but not for too long. Limit yourself to one or two sentences at first, and give them a few more if they ask for more. Throw in a phrase like "I could go on about this for a while" if it's a special interest for you, since that gives the other person an out to the conversation if they aren't as interested in it as you are.

If you have any further questions I'd be happy to help you. If not, good luck!

Trizkit · 2022-10-22T23:05:55+00:00

What exactly are you saying needs to be torn down here? What social standards are you talking about?

I certainly understand very much where you are coming from but now that I'm older I have a bit of a different perspective on the matter. The thing is you can't really try to make friends I mean you can but its really just something that happens and evolves over time. If people don't like your personality or whatever than that's on them, but if you're being a dick than that's on you. I'm not implying that you are or aren't by any means I'm just sharing my experience.

I would say best bet is to just let things happen, go with the flow and understand that the best friends you will make will come naturally. Unfortunately, you are still in High School I imagine so your pool of available friendships is definitely more limited. But you could connect with people who share your hobbies and interests and talk to them about those things as well.

Idk really what the best advice is that I can give other than to become patient and retrospective as that will take you much further than any singular friend ever will. At least it did for me.

moonsnogger · 2022-11-01T09:26:06+00:00

I understand this heavily, man. Im an autistic trans guy, so I can provide a unique perspective on this.

I feel like in recent years, a lot of the autism positivity movement has mostly had white women advocates. Which is totally cool, I’m all for any autistic person of any demographic feeling more confident and secure in themselves and I’m happy that “female-presenting” autism is getting more rep since AFABS are typically either undiagnosed or only diagnosed later in life. I think it partly stems from the only autism rep in media for the longest time being high support needs autistic boys, often shown to be weird or perverted or generally hard to relate to. Autism rep of girls is more recent and generally more positive and accurate (an example i can name off the top of my head being entrapta from shera of all places but i’ll take what i can get).

Also in my experience, when i’m percieved as a woman by those around me (I’m pre transition, in a very hostile environment toward trans ppl) and talk about my autism, it generally comes with less preconceptions. That may also be because i am low support needs and thus the stereotype is that I am a genius of indescribable talent on the brink of wowing you with my mathematical prowess. So.
Keep in mind its not every autistic girl experiencing such a wonderful life though. I am AFAB autistic, and suffered through years of being undiagnosed and people around me consistently excluding me from social activities, feeling like a fucking alien because i couldn’t write until i was like 9, having my typically boyish and unusual interests laughed at constantly, being assumed to be “just like everyone else” and being expected to uphold eye contact wear exceedingly uncomfortable clothing having meltdowns in highschool which i assure you was not met with cuddles and a choccie for my troubles. Always being too much or too little for my peers and family to handle.

Maybe I will have a more well rounded perspective after i transition and live life as an autistic man to the society around me. But my current perspective is that this shit stinks either way

Title	It’s time to talk about the social outcasting that is done to autistic boys.
Author	MemeMasterBill
Upvotes	143
Comments	27
Date	October 22, 2022 6:10 PM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/comments/yauiqk/its_time_to_talk_about_the_social_outcasting_that/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/its-time-to-talk-about-the-social-outcasting-that.1136875 https://theredarchive.com/post/1136875

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