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Friends are good for us … so why do many men have none at all?

NeoNotNeo

October 31, 2022
55 upvotes
/r/MensRights
https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2022/oct/29/friends-are-good-for-us-so-why-do-many-men-have-none-banshees-of-inisherin
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Post Information
Title Friends are good for us … so why do many men have none at all?
Author

NeoNotNeo

Upvotes 55
Comments 43
Date October 31, 2022 3:56 AM UTC
(3 years ago)
Subreddit Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/yi026v/friends_are_good_for_us_so_why_do_many_men_have/
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/friends-are-good-for-us-so-why-do-many-men-have.1137622
https://theredarchive.com/post/1137622
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Comments

[–]shit-zen-giggles 31 points32 points33 points 3 years ago (21 children) | Copy Link

unwillingly the author dropped a truth bomb there:

He was largely content with her taking the social lead, although “a little bit resentful that if I ever suggested someone who wasn’t in that circle, it kind of never happened”.

Yet, the fact that men (have to) do most of the earning and thus don't have time for socializing and organizing is blamed on men themselves as per the usual:

Wilson-Smith attributes male social passivity to a lack of emotional engagement and a preoccupation with other aspects of life, like work, money and sport.

To be clear: I don't mean to imply that men bear no responsibility for this state of affairs or have no personal capability to change it, what I try to convey is the opposite: That they are not the sole culprit who brought about and sustains this state of affairs (no pun intended).

[–]Financial_Run5674 20 points21 points22 points 3 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Remember: we used to have men's clubs. We used to have fraternities beyond colleges.

Men used to have boy scouts, eagle scouts, rotary club, and on and on.

But those male only spaces were evil and had to be destroyed.

[–]Cindylynn43 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I am not a Man, but I think it's b.s. that there's been such a negative applied to Mens clubs or organizations. I have all kinds of options for Women only places to go. Just more toxic bullshit that feminist are peddling. I encourage my husband to spend time with his friend's solo. I know that he needs more than my company, or perspectives. We all need that. Why these nut jobs can't get that through their thick skulls I will never know. 😤

[–]SamaelET 10 points11 points12 points 3 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

And yet people love to throw around the idea that women are stuck at home with kids, without social life, while men go to enjoy the night with their friends.

[–]shit-zen-giggles 4 points5 points6 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Interesting contradiction! I hadn't spotted this one yet. Thanks 👍

[–]Marty-the-monkey 6 points7 points8 points 3 years ago (15 children) | Copy Link

Why does men have to do most of the earning?

[–]shit-zen-giggles 6 points7 points8 points 3 years ago (12 children) | Copy Link

because women are hypergamous, so if the man doesn't earn as much or more than her, no pair formation accours?

[–]Marty-the-monkey 1 point2 points3 points 3 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link

We don't socialize with the same women it seems, because that's never been a thing where I come from.

[–]shit-zen-giggles 3 points4 points5 points 3 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

Cool. Which country are you from, if I may ask?

[–]Marty-the-monkey 1 point2 points3 points 3 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

Denmark. But my experiences in Sweden and Norway are similar.

[–]Porpoise555 1 point2 points3 points 3 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

Here in the US, women don't date men who make less than them, even though women make up a huge portion of the job market.

[–]Marty-the-monkey 1 point2 points3 points 3 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Even when I did my time in the US (and where I ended up finding my wife after having lived there for a couple of years) i never had this issue.

I can assure you it's not my looks which compensates for the income lack, if that was on your mind (and thank you if it was) ;)

So maybe you need to move to Texas instead, because I never had any issues of which you speak of there...

[–]reverbiscrap 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Your situation as an 'exotic' doesn't place you the same category as a native.

Did you marry an American woman?

[–]Marty-the-monkey 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I did in fact end up marrying one :)

[–]shit-zen-giggles 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Just remembered this study:

http://www.familiesandsocieties.eu/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/WP26KlesmentVanBavel.pdf

On page 15 you can see the income distributions of couples in all EU countries. The graphs show the proportion of the women's earnings in relation to the couple's entire earnings. If both partners make the same, the women's earnings ratio is 0.5, if the man earns everything, it's 0 and if the women earn everything, it is 1.

What you can see for Denmark, Norway and Sweden is that in all these countries (like everywhere else in the EU) there's significantly more couples were the woman earns less than her husband. The most common group is indeed the "men earns 100% of household income" group, which is shown as a simple number in the top left of each graph, since it is so out of proportion, it doesn't fit in the graph.

Additionally noteworthy is the marked cliff right after the 50/50 point present in practically all countries, indicating that when the woman earns just a little bit more than the man, there's an emidiate penalty on pair formation.

when I wrote

if the man doesn't earn as much or more than her, no pair formation accours

I was a bit drastic for the sake of briefty, but all in all the data bears it out quite well.

[–]Marty-the-monkey 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

It's kind of amazing that you can reference an entire article so confidently and at no point mention that it explores the factor of educational level in relation to the whole pairing up.

Not mentioning a rather major factor of an articles entire foundation seems kind of missed....

[–]shit-zen-giggles 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

well, then let's agree to disagree.

[–]Marty-the-monkey 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

It's not a point you can disagree about when you are misrepresenting what an article is exploring to pretend it's saying something it isn't.

[–]elebrin -2 points-1 points0 points 3 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

It's the thing we have, that's ours, that we can do.

Either you make the family or you provide for the family. Those are your options in life. Earning money is how we do the second part. Women can do both of those things but not at the same time, and men can only do one.

Our best option is to provide for ourselves and look after our families that are already in existence, and not get involved in making more of them.

[–]Marty-the-monkey 2 points3 points4 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I'm very much disagreeing with the dichotomy you are presenting and would even go as far as saying your attitude is exactly why men feel they can only do one.

[–]Ok-Translator2294 21 points22 points23 points 3 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

Most men cut ties with their friends once in a relationship. I've seen this happen too many time, their girlfriends either do not approve of us, or take offence if told the things we used to do together.

A friends wife once took offence because we just mentioned that we used to call eachother names back in school. Stormed out of the party, stopped him from meeting us again.

Another friend's girlfriend would always tag along with him on boy's night out and then get offended because of our jokes (mostly self-depreciating) or because we burped. This however did not stop her from coming again next time. We stopped inviting him after a while.

There are countless instances of this happening. If you are not too busy with work and kids, you have a partner who wouldn't let you go see the friends she doesn't approve of.

Post divorce/breakup most guys come back to us.

[–]schmadimax 4 points5 points6 points 3 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

God if I ever do get in a relationship I hope it won't be with someone like these, I very much dislike people who give ultimatums so if a person says me or the boys I will be 100% single the next day, friends are like family to me because I have none where I live so I would never jeopardise my friendships for a woman, fuck that..

[–]Cindylynn43 3 points4 points5 points 3 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

A good Woman won't try to keep you from having friendships. If anything, she will encourage you to spend time with your buddies. I've been married for 20 years and have an amazing marriage because I don't try to be the only person in his life that he can spend time with. We have a great time together, and we need time apart. Don't settle for anything less. I've watched so many of my Male friend's settle and now they're miserable.

[–]schmadimax 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Thank you for this! I will definitely not settle, I want what I want and if I can't find that in a woman I'll try with a man instead (perks of being bisexual I guess), I need my friends around me, they help me recharge my social batteries when I'm drained and I have the most fun in the world with them.

[–]melly651 -5 points-4 points-3 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

So the TLDR version of your post is everything is women's fault.

However, the reality is that if men cut ties it's on them. Nobody held a gun to their heads. Also, in your example, it seems like you kicked your friend out of your group. That's on you guys, not her. It seems that taking responsibility is a problem for several guys but the blame is always put on women.

[–]Dr_RxRedpill 8 points9 points10 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Male alienation is a legitimate problem.

If anyone needs to talk - our DMs are open. As activists - our goal is to support men.

[–]delocalelectron 6 points7 points8 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

The first thing a woman will do, on marriage or commitment to a long term relationship, is discourage your friends from coming round. Those friends are an open door to a time when having kids and a tracker mortgage weren't top of your priority list.

[–]Riptionator 2 points3 points4 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Men give up their friends for women and it needs to stop. You can have both. If your SO says no, break up with her.

[–]_BlueShark87 4 points5 points6 points 3 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

Well in most relationships the women immediately gets rid of your friends and that’s when you choose between them or the women. Guess what the majority of men choose? Women. After they lose their friends they are discouraged from making new ones and stay in a rut of work and sleep.

[–]SubmissivePickmegirl 1 point2 points3 points 3 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Actually, my spouse, who is an introvert, still has his few buddies, free to contact them. I am to support him in his decisions whether to hangout, chat or whatever.

However before I meet him, one guy was flirting with me online and he told me that his ex devastated him and coerced him to block all his friends and now is antisocial. I had felt really sorry for him and angry at his ex.

[–]_BlueShark87 1 point2 points3 points 3 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Yea that’s common practice where you choose your friends or girlfriend. It’s like a video game and it’s standard practice to get rid of the friends so you are the only one he spends time with.

[–]SubmissivePickmegirl 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

But I don't mind if he wants to communicate with his buddies.

[–]_BlueShark87 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Most girls don’t, so he’ll spend more time with them.

[–]Ok_Can7267 3 points4 points5 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

One of the reasons is also a psychological condition called Alexithymia almost all men suffer from due to their upbringing in which the boys' emotions are shut down and repressed whereas the girls are given the free space to explore the wide range of their emotions. Check out this video, it's a good watch! Here

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Men are constantly bombarded with responsibilities and overwhelming societal pressures. Between my two jobs and kids, I often find solace when using the washroom as it's the only time I'm left alone! For anyone just looking for someone to talk to feel free to DM me.. Times are tough brothers!

[–]IanHawkess2 points 3 years ago [recovered] (2 children) | Copy Link

We did things in a different way to women. We had male-only spaces. We were allowed to ‘be’ in a different way.

They systemically set about destroying them. And now we have virtually no spaces where we can go, away from women. Women kept their spaces, both formal and informal. It’s hard to think of a better illustration of the double standard.

[–]IanHawkess1 points 3 years ago [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link

It’s also worth noting that modern jobs have expanded beyond all sense of what might be called reasonable as well. There’s a reason women don’t work as hard - they’re often picking up the family work that needs to be done. I work from 5am until around 8pm and I’m far from abnormal. That doesn’t leave time for much else. It’s not all the fault of women, there are many factors in play.

[–]Doing_It_In_The_Butt 1 point2 points3 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Americans are weird. That is too many hours mate, you will die of a heart attack at 50 for no other reason than earning money you can't spend.

I know Europe is unusual in the number of hours we spend at the office in comparison to the US, China, Korea. But still you Americans need to sort this out, I wouldn't be able to do anything else than be a cranky rabid asshole to people if I was working 15 hour days regularly.

[–]PirateDocBrown 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Men also need men friends. Swing hammers on projects, sip whiskey by a fire, smoke cigars on porches, go fishing, microbreweries.

[–]MrHoonigan802 -3 points-2 points-1 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Because they are pussy whipped OR are a loser nobody wants around the ones they care for is what I've noticed ( man whore who hits on friends gf/wives, alcoholic, druggie etc)

[–]Frequent-throwAway 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

👋 I'm always looking for buddies. But married guys are too tied up usually. And kids complicate it more to a degree.

I personally feel socially awkward in general, so making male friends is hard. Our culture in USA is so homophobic about anything. I get more ass than a public toilet, but I'm not afraid to hug my best buds. Because usually I dont see my best buds often, so a hug is definitely called for!

Someday I will have a couple more friends. Someday.....maybe....

[–]crz8956 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Because inflation, consumerism and growing prices leave kinda not enough time to truly socialize with somebody.

[–]Pretend-Row4794 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Men. Be friends…with eachother. Both my parents work and I’d say they have an equal amount of “friends” aka people they went to college with or know through work. I don’t get how adults don’t have friends, I work and have a pretty large friend group.

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