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Taiwan to extend conscription to a year for all 18 year old males (only males).

furchfur

December 27, 2022
264 upvotes
/r/MensRights
https://www.ft.com/content/a236c762-c978-4888-b301-c46ec1d9a556
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Post Information
Title Taiwan to extend conscription to a year for all 18 year old males (only males).
Author

furchfur

Upvotes 264
Comments 72
Date December 27, 2022 3:34 PM UTC
(3 years ago)
Subreddit Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/zwibh0/taiwan_to_extend_conscription_to_a_year_for_all/
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/taiwan-to-extend-conscription-to-a-year-for-all-18.1145586
https://theredarchive.com/post/1145586
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Comments

[–]denisc9918 72 points73 points74 points 3 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Damn! The feminists are gonna go nuts!

Men only!! How dare they not include women!

[–][deleted] 20 points21 points22 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Haaahahhaa you wish mate. They’re “not equal yet” I think it should be women and men or no one, but “the military isn’t a safe environment for women” so they’ll never agree to that

[–]nineteenletterslong_ 2 points3 points4 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

we're just making up for all the centuries when only women were conscripted

[–]mopemardermun 2 points3 points4 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Yeah! I've heard "feminism is about equality" loads. Well if feminists can gather millions in the street over their abortion privileges (yes privileges - a right only one group has is a privilege) being SLIGHTLY restricted, then SURELY they can gather many more over this hugely sexist and unequal treatment against men.

Any day now... just waiting...

[–]otterdog891 37 points38 points39 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Notice how feminists aren’t outraged when a woman makes a decision that could kill thousands of men.

[–]disayle32 47 points48 points49 points 3 years ago (15 children) | Copy Link

Possibly unpopular opinion: a society that can't convince enough of its people to voluntarily fight to defend it doesn't deserve to continue existing.

[–]Kinexity 17 points18 points19 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I'll be honest - this opinion is so wrong and yet so right at the same time.

[–]RyeDraLisk 5 points6 points7 points 3 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

For large nations with large populations, sure. I think you're overestimating the size of small nations with conscription.

And just to be clear I'm not talking out of my ass, I've been conscripted before as part of a male-only conscription for my tiny-ass country. I disagree with many parts of my country's conscription, but I also don't see how the country survives without any form of conscription.

[–]disayle32 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

If your country is invaded by a much larger one, would conscription make a difference?

[–]RyeDraLisk 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Yes. The active military of the nations I spoke of are roughly the same size as the conscript military, and our hardware is a pretty decent match judging from the sources I've checked.

Of course, much much larger nations like India and China would see us as no threat, but there's little chance of them invading us out of nowhere. We deal with the closer threats, if China comes then the whole region will be involved, anyway.

The point is, conscription does has its place in geopolitical terms. And I think it's natural for people to disagree, it's probably one of the best encapsulations of the concept of prioritising the individual (and his rights), against prioritising the state.

As a gross generalisation, Asian states like mine tend towards the latter (not to the extreme, of course).

I assume from your post history you're American? Then you have the luxury of a giant, well-defended nation with a huge population to prioritise the individual. If you're European, you have the luxury of a huge military alliance, backed up with the aforementioned giant, well-defended nation. Unfortunately, my country doesn't share many of those luxuries.

[–]disayle32 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link

I see. So if your country was ever invaded, it sounds like you'd need every able bodied adult citizen either fighting or otherwise supporting the war effort. Ergo, why not conscript women into appropriate roles as well?

[–]RyeDraLisk 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Who said I was against it? I myself said I disagree with many parts of how conscription is done in my country.

Your initial statement criticised conscription in general, not solely male-only conscription, hence my entire argument was on proving that some countries do, in fact, need conscription.

Regardless, I'm entirely in favour of conscripting women too -- if conscription is necessary then women should be involved too.

[–]AControversialThing 1 point2 points3 points 3 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Well, Taiwan has West Taiwan to worry about. Finland has Russia to worry about. Ukraine has Russia to worry about. South Korea has North Korea to worry about.

In an ideal world, you wouldn't need armies to begin with. However, it is a shitty world we live in.

[–]MicrosoftOSX 1 point2 points3 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I know, and wouldnt that make healthy women getting conscripted before extremely unhealthy men more viable?

[–]Brusanan 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Well, the alternative to forced conscription is basically to join China, and nobody wants to join China.

[–]MicrosoftOSX 2 points3 points4 points 3 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

conscript healthy women as well. I dont want extremely obese men fighting along my cousins.

[–]Ashley_Titor -1 points0 points1 point 3 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

why not, the obese men take up a larger amount of area, they are practically human meat sheilds! and as far as i am concerned the more people with a gun in their hands the better, they may be fat as fuck but so long as they can pull a trigger no one is upset

[–]MicrosoftOSX 1 point2 points3 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

true, if we get healthy and obese women that would be even more people with guns!!

[–]ColonelVirus -2 points-1 points0 points 3 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Probably, but the US will take Taiwan if it's ever under threat, you can bet your ass American lives would be on the line to protect it.

[–]Ashley_Titor 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

most likely yes but you dont want to rely on the US, look what happened in the middle east under joe biden

[–]ColonelVirus -1 points0 points1 point 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Under Joe? He's only been in power for a year? I'd assume anything that happens under him would have been something carried over from Trump's decisions. Same as troops pulling out was decided under Obama and finished under Trump.

[–]MicrosoftOSX 7 points8 points9 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

not only this, they also extended the body height/weight min max and BMI min max for health requirements. So instead of conscripting healthy women, they decided unhealthy men are better (the original standards were pretty extreme already)

[–]SomeonePleaseKillMe1 10 points11 points12 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

You first Tsai. Show us that strong and independent feminine swagger.

Wars can last for years and can need a steady supply of new soldiers. If we can enforce a man's role to die for others than... I fail to see what's stopping us from enforcing a woman's role to breed.

But that would be inhumane. Think of the girls!

[–]SweetandSourFish 1 point2 points3 points 3 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link

Fun Fact: The policy was announced by a female president.

More Fun Fact: In Taiwan, a female voluntary soldier needs to sign a questionnaire document before being discharged from the army. Once she chooses to "disagree", she will not be education recalled.

Even More Fun Fact: Even so, no women were ever education recalled, when over a hundred female voluntary soldiers agreed to be education recalled.

by a Taiwanese

[–]SweetandSourFish 1 point2 points3 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

The actual circumstance about female voluntary soldiers and their education recall will be changed next month, finally.

[–]TryThisDickdotCom 18 points19 points20 points 3 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link

i think about this often, 18 year old conscription is fucking horrible.

make it 35. pick men not boys for your wars.

[–]Applepieoverdose 27 points28 points29 points 3 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

As someone who is currently a 28-year old conscript: fuck that.

[+]TryThisDickdotCom -28 points-27 points-26 points 3 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

you, uh, wouldn't have been conscripted at 28 - 35. pick childless unmarried men - give them something to fight for.

[–]No-Pension-1911 8 points9 points10 points 3 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Wtf lol

[+]TryThisDickdotCom -15 points-14 points-13 points 3 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

why send children to war? 18 year old males are children. Ask them anything.

[–]SomeonePleaseKillMe1 4 points5 points6 points 3 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Why force anybody into that situation? A country that can't convince enough citizens to voluntarily take arms is clearly not worth protecting in the first place.

Just watch the hunger games or something if you want to see government officials force people to kill each other. If you mute it and squint you can pretend they're all adults.

[–]TryThisDickdotCom -2 points-1 points0 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Who says you're not correct. however, in the event that conscription becomes a thing - wasting the lives of children should not be accepted by anyone.

[–]Brusanan 7 points8 points9 points 3 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

Found the guy who hasn't reached 35 yet.

An army of 18 year olds would absolutely destroy an army of 35 year olds.

[–]TryThisDickdotCom -5 points-4 points-3 points 3 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

nope. the value of a young mans life for the future is more important than us older men. again -18 year old children shouldn't be drafted for war.

[–]Brusanan 6 points7 points8 points 3 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

A 35 year old potentially has 17 years worth of skills needed to keep society functioning that no 18 year old can possibly have. That is irreplaceable.

Apart from 35 year olds just not being as effective at fighting as 18 year olds, society would have trouble bouncing back from the serious brain drain if we sent 35 year olds to war.

[+]TryThisDickdotCom -8 points-7 points-6 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

meh - the vast majority of jobs do not require specialized education.

one way to dodge the draft was to go to college.

welp - how about instead of choosing war or education for children. we take that terrible decision away. Draft men not boys.

[–]Greg_W_Allan 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

An army of 18 year olds would absolutely destroy an army of 35 year olds.

Probably not. 45 maybe.

[+]DimonRot 4 points5 points6 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Shoot the recruiter 🙂

[–]iloveplanetss 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

i dont get it, what does this mean?

[–]ABeeBox 5 points6 points7 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Boys are sent to the military for a year as soon as they become 18 years old.

[–]Iwearhelmets -1 points0 points1 point 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

If you see a big word you don’t understand on the internet, google it. Being competent is something you should strive to be this new year, brother.

[–]Accomplished-Eye2009 -1 points0 points1 point 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Nothing like equal rights and diversity. And we support them against China 🤣

[–]Immediate-Wash-8961 points 3 years ago [recovered] (23 children) | Copy Link

Well, you have to factor in that china will eventually invade taiwan, men work in the armed forces whilst women work in jobs like medic, communications, commanding operation, airforce

[–]furchfur[S] 54 points55 points56 points 3 years ago (19 children) | Copy Link

And that is wrong.

Equality means women also being required to lay down their lives for their country.

[–]WeEatBabies 30 points31 points32 points 3 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Dude, you are talking to a feminists, she a different concept of equality.

[–]Immediate-Wash-8961 points 3 years ago [recovered] (2 children) | Copy Link

I'm not a feminist, im a dude, and as I said , only 45% of americans favor drafting females, also, we need strong soldiers and men are phyisically stronger than women, thus spending resources on men, while the women work at home in the factories (what happened during ww2), is much more favorable than to recruit both genders and deprive countries of industrial fighting chances

[–]rabel111 8 points9 points10 points 3 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Not all men are stronger or more physically fit than all women. In any case, war in the Ukraine has shown that war has changed. It's no longer just a battle of brute force in the trenches. It's a war of technology, stealth, intelligence, communications as well as brute force.

So why shouldn't women be in roles with fatal risk that do not require brute force? Realistic evaluations that rely on birth sex rather than actual ability? or sexism?

[+]Immediate-Wash-896 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

uhh, only 45% of americans favor drafting females, also, we need strong soldiers and men are phyisically stronger than women, thus spending resources on men, while the women work at home in the factories (what happened during ww2), is much more favorable than to recruit both genders and deprive countries of industrial fighting chances

[+]Explise209 -18 points-17 points-16 points 3 years ago (13 children) | Copy Link

But they are? Do you think being in the airforce isn’t dangerous? They’re simply placed in the jobs those in charge think they’ll do best

[–]CookyMcCookface 24 points25 points26 points 3 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

All military service comes with inherent risk. But let’s not pretend that being a supply clerk on a base or a nurse in a hospital is just as dangerous as being a frontline infantry soldier. This is why the US military opening up most combat roles to women was a significant move…

[+]Explise209 -14 points-13 points-12 points 3 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Field medics are not in hospitals, unless you consider a truck a hospital. Field medics do some of the most stressful and difficult jobs. Doing surgery on someone in an active warzone is generally quite stressful.

I do agree that it should be completely equal for all sexes, but field medics and those in the airforce are not safe from combat

[–]CookyMcCookface 15 points16 points17 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

As I said, all military service come with risk, but it varies SIGNIFICANTLY based on one’s job. Front-line, “boots on the ground” combat type work, which is historically dominated by men, carries a lot more risk. It’s a fact, not a feeling. That’s why the US opening combat roles to women was a big deal - it’s ultimately going to lead to more casualties that aren’t just men.

[–]disayle32 15 points16 points17 points 3 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

And are those women forced into those positions? Unlikely. That is not okay and it has never been okay and it will never be okay.

[+]Explise209 -14 points-13 points-12 points 3 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

I agree, but positons like field medics are still not safe from combat

[–]disayle32 12 points13 points14 points 3 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

And how is that relevant, exactly?

[–]Explise209 -4 points-3 points-2 points 3 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

Because the original commenter implied they were safe because woman worked in them

[–]alexanderthegreathe 13 points14 points15 points 3 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Because they were far safer than the average frontline soldier and you comparing them is ridiculous

[–]Explise209 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Modern field medics are armed and are on the frontlines. They are part of their platoon and are still killing enemies. And I don’t think I have to explain why being in the airforce can be dangerous

[+]Immediate-Wash-896 -1 points0 points1 point 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Actually no, a lot of medics still pose the same danger as other infantry soldiers, look at vietnamn for example, medics were right in the field. comparing these two isnt "ridiculous", without medics our army wouldn't run and without our army medics wouldn't rum. To seperate both and give more importance to another is dumb.

[–]odysseytree 6 points7 points8 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Yeah compared to the frontline. He is not saying in the absolute terms.

[–]odysseytree 6 points7 points8 points 3 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

So if it's dangerous, they should be given mandatory training at 18 to defend against danger.

[–]Explise209 1 point2 points3 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I don’t think anyone should be conscripted against their will, regardless of their sex.

[–]odysseytree 12 points13 points14 points 3 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

So during crisis you suddenly remember the gender differences between men and women and during peaceful times you make propaganda on equality. Choose 1.

[+]Immediate-Wash-896 -6 points-5 points-4 points 3 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

We dont need females in the armed forces, as they are physically 60% weaker, they are much more equipped to fight in the airforce, medics, that is why drafts are only for males. It's simple, we're just stronger, In the army you need to be constantly shifting arround with 60 pound weights

[–]CookyMcCookface 6 points7 points8 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Females are more than capable of being in combat roles. In my opinion, however, whereas an average to above-average man could function effectively as an infantryman, it would take an exceptional woman to effectively function in that same role. There are always outliers when it comes to physical strength and the female outliers are who could function just fine in a combat role…

[+]AstoriaHat -20 points-19 points-18 points 3 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

Do all men here really think that male only conscription is that unfair? It is unfair in the context of the modern strive for equality on all levels and the demonization of masculine virtues but it exists for a valid reason. I suppose with modern warfare the advantage of masculine soldiers matters less and the threat of a society dying off from females dying is less but we need to think if we want to uproot societal norms.

[–]Ashley_Titor 2 points3 points4 points 3 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

line virtues but it exists for a valid reason. I suppose with modern warfare the advantage of masculine

um no, ALL people must be conscripted or no people, you wanted to be as equal to a man now didnt you? now you are and with that goes your special privileges

[+]AstoriaHat -2 points-1 points0 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Who do you imagine you are communicating with?

This kind of whinny bitterness is what makes mens rights loose legitimacy as a movement.

[–]No-Knowledge-8867 3 points4 points5 points 3 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

I think for me I don't have such a problem with male conscription as a matter of national defence but with the demonisation of men and masculinity it doesn't give me a lot to fight for.

[–]PricklyGoober 3 points4 points5 points 3 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

For me I feel conscripts need to be properly compensated for their sacrifice. The opportunity cost of losing years of your prime is not minute. As is, at least in my country, conscripts are just glorified slaves.

[–]No-Knowledge-8867 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

Oh yeah, absolutely. It should be a viable paid pathway to skills. My personal opinion is that it's beneficial for a state to have ready and trained individuals in the case of invasion. Those men should be well compensated and training should also allow for extended education.

[–]denyjunctionfunction 1 point2 points3 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Even in a matter of national defense, a male only conscription is idiotic. You’d want to conscript people with skills. Guess what profession many women take up and is absolutely vital to defense efforts. Nursing.

A conscription program that conscripted based on skills would be, on its face equal, and would be better suited towards the stated goal. Instead they just plan to throw boys at the problem and hope that stops it without considering the aftermath.

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