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Celebrating 25 years of female-only victim services and male-only prosecution for domestic violence: the "Danger Assessment" training program for law enforcement and victim services (links in comments)

AndrewLevin

December 31, 2013

244 upvotes

/r/MensRights

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Title	Celebrating 25 years of female-only victim services and male-only prosecution for domestic violence: the "Danger Assessment" training program for law enforcement and victim services (links in comments)
Author	AndrewLevin
Upvotes	244
Comments	34
Date	December 31, 2013 3:40 PM UTC (12 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/1u3ggz/celebrating_25_years_of_femaleonly_victim/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/celebrating-25-years-of-female-only-victim.1154795 https://theredarchive.com/post/1154795

Comments

[–]AndrewLevin[S] 31 points32 points33 points 12 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link

[+]OmnipotentPenis -7 points-6 points-5 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 16 points17 points18 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[+]mariiheger -36 points-35 points-34 points 12 years ago (30 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 35 points36 points37 points 12 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

[+][deleted] 12 years ago* (6 children) | Copy Link

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[–]cxj 22 points23 points24 points 12 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[+][deleted] 12 years ago* (2 children) | Copy Link

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[–]cxj 8 points9 points10 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I had a friend with a similar story: he had cuts and bruises but admitted to pushing his gf off him, so he was arrested in spite of her having no visible injuries. It is insane how police and the whole judicial system are trained to see women as victims and absolutely cannot for the life of them see men as victims even when overwhelming evidence exists proving it.

Don't even get me started on the "protective order" bullshit because that is its own insane issue. Honestly, virtually every men's issue has a whole subset of perils attached to it: Domestic violence has the threat of the unchecked violent female partner, the threat of the police, career ruining legal implications, bizarre and unconstitutional restrictions on where you are allowed to go, etc. These are all huge problems in their own right, and NONE of them are being dealt with at all, in fact even bringing them up is offensive bcuz "omg teh womynz have it so much worse we are being catcalled and looked at in public when we dress up for attention"

[+]mariiheger 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]OmnipotentPenis 3 points4 points5 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]cxj 6 points7 points8 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I know for a fact it is quite typical. When I started talking about it, many friends of mine sought me out with virtually identical stories, many of whom I hadn't talked to in a while. Most of my friends, and most modern western men in general, are not rambo macho violent types, just chill guys doing their thing peacefully. I have zero reason to believe that they suddenly and for no reason became violent towards their girlfriends when I had known them for years and observed them with previous girls.

Even friends of mine who were GIRLS came out to me to warn me about the perils of the legal system, many of them have had male friends/brothers etc get fucked by the insanity of DV laws. I live in CA, and according to my lawyer and many other people my county is one of the worst in the country to get accused of DV in because the DA wants to look "tough on wifebeaters" by maximizing DV convictions by any means necessary.

I want to write a huge post on here about my experience but

A) my lawyer advised me not to say anything publicly about this for a while, even though the case was eventually dismissed, and

B) I do not want to come off to r/mensrights and the MRM in general as trying to make you all "my personal army" or whatever, or make the whole movement about my experience when there are massive political issues to discuss that affect all of us together.

[–]blueoak9 10 points11 points12 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]RainingDown1 11 points12 points13 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]snoopyzanus 13 points14 points15 points 12 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link

Imagine a "sea rescue" training program. Its graduates have saved many lives. Great, right?

Let's see it in action: A ship is sinking. Lots of people are in the water, close to drowning. In comes the sea rescue boat. Many people are rescued. Hooray! But wait—all of the people in the boat are white. The ship had sailed past all drowning non-white people as if they didn't exist.

You see, the training program focuses solely on rescuing white people. The same techniques could be used to rescue anyone, but they have chosen to limit their efforts to rescuing white people exclusively. They emphasize how many white people lose their lives at sea every year. To hear them talk you would think only white people were at risk on the water. Graduates of their program operate as if this were true. They only acknowledge white people's existence when conducting their rescue efforts.

Vile, right? Even though they rescue many innocent people.

[+]mariiheger -1 points0 points1 point 12 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[+]mariiheger 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[+]mariiheger -1 points0 points1 point 12 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[+]mariiheger 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]snoopyzanus 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

and what if it was geared towards rescuing people who were historically disadvantaged and pooped on?

Are you seriously saying that a sea rescue service, which is meant to help people in immediate danger of losing their lives, would be justified in withholding services and thus deliberately letting people die based only on the race or sex of the individuals involved? The boat arrives to pick up the "worthy" victims to let the others there drown?

Or that individuals who police or other professionals know to have been abused (and who are perhaps at risk of being killed) should have a risk assessment (a simple questionnaire) withheld simply because of their race or sex?

I am more than aware that the program has it's flaws but by your reasoning, it shouldn't exist period BECAUSE it has flaws.

No, by my reasoning it is absurd for the program not to be inclusive of ALL domestic violence victims, as being inclusive would be as easy as handing them a version of the questionnaire with suitable pronouns. In fact, the deliberate exclusion of a subset of victims (remember, actual victims of violence who are potentially at great risk) in order to further a political agenda is vile.

Name one program that doesn't and I will find you personally and bow down to you.

Name an unflawed program? I'm sure I can't—but there is a big difference between a flaw that comes from a sincere, yet imperfect attempt at fairness and inclusiveness—and one that stems from premeditated, deliberate, outright bigotry in the service of an agenda.

[+]mariiheger 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

If the program is at risk for loosing all funding and thus no longer existing by breaching the terms and agreements for which the funding was received, then yes. Having something is better than having nothing.

And it is not as simple as an all inclusive questionnaire. Each IPV issue has to be treated differently, regardless of race, gender, SES, ect. The programs now-even the ones for only women or only men-are struggling with this issue and a lot of that lies in how program "success rates" are evaluated.

The bottom line is, the more people fight for seperation, the farther we are from reaching an all inclusive program. So instead of critizing, why not try thinking outside the box on ways to bring the groups together and address ALL types of IPV? Homosexual, heteralsexual, male, female, transgender, etc? This issue is far more complex than just male v female. Simply bitching and moaning does nothing.

[–]snoopyzanus 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

If the program is at risk for loosing all funding and thus no longer existing by breaching the terms and agreements for which the funding was received, then yes. Having something is better than having nothing.

This is saying that the bigotry goes right to the top and is spread throughout the field, so it is practically impossible to get alternate funding which doesn't restrict programs to a bigoted ideological framework. This does seem to be the case, I grant you.

But this program was designed from the outset, intentionally, to be all about helping women. The bias was instigated by its creator. This is not a case of a well-meaning individual who wanted to help all victims, but couldn't because of red-tape restrictions.

The creator, Jacquelyn Campbell is an example of the very type of bigot in a position of power who deliberately instigates her acts of bigotry and seeks to permeate the system with it.

She is not a victim of the problem; she is the problem.

"The primary goal of my work has been to ensure that women get the help that they need to improve their safety, health, and well-being." Dr. Jacquelyn Campbell

There is nothing wrong with wanting to help women. The problem comes from presenting part of the problem (women being abused by men) as if it were the whole problem and the only problem to be focused on, with male victims to be unacknowledged and left out in the cold—at the mercy of their abuser, afraid to even call the police because of the very legitimate fear that it would be they who would be arrested (which, for fathers, would leave their children unguarded in the custody of a mother who is likely to turn her abuse on them).

And it is not as simple as an all inclusive questionnaire.

I'm referring specifically to the questionnaire at the heart of the danger assessment program. "The Danger Assessment is an instrument that helps to determine the level of danger an abused woman has of being killed by her intimate partner."

The bottom line is, the more people fight for seperation, the farther we are from reaching an all inclusive program.

People like Dr. Jacquelyn Campbell are the ones doing this. They are creating the problem—willfully.

So instead of critizing, why not try thinking outside the box on ways to bring the groups together and address ALL types of IPV?

To fix a problem you first have to identify the problem. Criticism is necessary. If there is an elephant in the room it is important to point that out when say, trying to fix the problem of the room feeling so cramped.

The elephant here is that the system is permeated from top to bottom with people like Dr. Jacquelyn Campbell who have deliberately set up things to be the way they are due to their bigotry, and they are highly resistant to changes to make the system inclusive of all victims—particularly male victims.

[–][deleted] 9 points10 points11 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]assemblethenation 8 points9 points10 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]SilencingNarrative 8 points9 points10 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 11 points12 points13 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[+]mariiheger 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I understand that women falsely accuse men. It’s horrible and disgusting and makes me sick to my stomach every time a woman does because it makes it that much harder for people who are actually being abused to receive any sort of assistance. The very fact that so many people’s first reaction is “She’s lying” is terrible and horrendous and something that no one should have to experience ever and unfortunately it’s due to terrible human beings that this mind frame exists.

The same can be said for men. The fact that we live in a culture that criticizes men for reaching out for help when they are being abused is disgusting. The fact that we automatically assume that “he must have wanted it” is terrible. And the fact that there are so little efforts to help them is horrendous. Believe me, I am far from a man hater and genuinely believe that change needed to start quite a long time ago. EVERYONE counts.

This is one of the biggest reasons I am trying so hard to create one of very few completely inclusive programs geared towards intimate partner violence. To be honest, there’s a chance that I’m more familiar with the statistics behind IPV than you are since that's pretty much all that I do with my life. I know that there are biases present. Any one is able to see that. I know that there are flaws present because again, anyone is able to see that. But I refuse to believe that the flaws of a program make it pointless and evil. Because as I told someone else, all programs have flaws and I don’t know of any that don’t.

But does that necessarily make a program evil, vile, despicable, and pointless? No. More money is put towards IPV programs that are female based programs for several reasons (some good, some disgusting). But the one I keep hearing the most is that it’s because it’s primarily women who are reporting the problem (And there are historical issues behind it. It’d be like telling a black person they can’t complain about racism. Do others experience it? Yes. But historically…) It’s hard to gage a problem when it isn’t being reported. And before you jump down my throat, I know that a lot of this ties into cultural issues and lack of programs in existence, and a number of other things. I’m not as ignorant as you think. But for you to sit there and criticize a program that is attempting to end an issue that negatively impacts quite a number of people is, in all honesty, stupid. Especially when you’re being just as exclusive as they are. Where are your criticisms about homosexual and transgender IPV? It’s a problem everywhere but you have to start SOME where.

And finally, why not contact the damn program and ask them to put a few links, a blurb, anything that’s geared towards helping men? It’s amazing how easy it is to include those things on a website. If you started working towards joining the two issues together instead of insisting on keeping them separate, things might change a lot quicker.

[–]everyone_hates_you_ 7 points8 points9 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]icedcat 3 points4 points5 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link