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UK: Police must stop training officers to believe rape complainants automatically says ex-High Court judge

furchfur

December 24, 2017
693 upvotes
/r/MensRights
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5209897/Police-stop-believing-rape-complainants-automatically.html
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Title UK: Police must stop training officers to believe rape complainants automatically says ex-High Court judge
Author

furchfur

Upvotes 693
Comments 19
Date December 24, 2017 11:32 AM UTC
(8 years ago)
Subreddit Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/7luqn6/uk_police_must_stop_training_officers_to_believe/
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/uk-police-must-stop-training-officers-to-believe.1173410
https://theredarchive.com/post/1173410
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Comments

[–][deleted] 58 points59 points60 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

He slammed the crisis and said that police forces shouldn't train their officers to presume that suspects are guilty.

They shouldn't presume the accused are suspects and that the alleged crime even occurred. First establish a crime has actually been committed, based on evidence, then start looking for suspects. This is what's missing.

Claims previously made by Chief Constable Simon Bailey of the College of Policing that only 0.1 per cent of allegations are false were rejected by Sir Richard Henriques.

The imaginary number keeps getting smaller and smaller.

The cases that have emerged over the last week demonstrate that the burden of proof is being reversed. It's flawed.

Burden of proof applies to trials, not police procedures. You expect police to be biased because they are essentially part of the prosecution. He should be criticizing judges that allow trials without evidence, yet somehow this is being missed in the debate. Wonder why.

[–][deleted] 21 points22 points23 points 8 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

Wait a min. They automatically believe the claims? How is that reasonable in any shape or form? Can we all just make up all the shit we want now and as long as we scream loud enough nobody will stop us? This is really disturbing that a society at this point in the modern world with a modern lifestyle is so insane.

[–]caribou167 points 8 years ago [recovered] (3 children) | Copy Link

It makes sense, though. Law enforcement officers are measured by the number of crimes they prevent/stop/whatever. They are incentivized, intentionally via training or not, to see guilt where there is none. They automatically believe these claims because it's what they WANT to be true.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

There is that too. Interesting thought.

[–]Arronicus 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

It makes sense, though. Law enforcement officers are measured by the number of crimes they prevent/stop/whatever.

This is wrong. They're measured by the crime rate. If in 2017, there are 24 assaults per 10,000 people, and the officer makes 10 arrests, and 'prevents' 5 assaults, and in 2018, there are 50 assaults per 10,000 people, the officer makes 48 arrests, and 'prevents' 85 assaults, the officer's department is seen to be doing a FAR worse job in 2018, than 2017. Police effectiveness is only really measured by increases or decreases in overall and specific crime, NOT in number of arrests, or number of crimes prevented.

[–]FlagrantWrongsDotCom 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

According to Sheryl Sandberg's book >60% of men are terrified to be in a room with a woman due to false allegations. And that was way before all of the recent incidents. Theres obviously some legitimate stuff but every guy is not out here sexually assaulting and raping people every waking minute of the day. GMAFB. There is standard police investigative procedure. I know all too well the extent that some women can very suddenly switch their stories and lie to people extremely egregiously. The daughter of former assistant vice undersecretary of defense john rogers... A woman who literally begged me to ask her to marry me, suddenly we never even dated. Oh really? Its a crime to lie to police. Its also a crime to try to hire somebody to kill your public boyfriend. Its also a crime to form a criminal terrorist conspiracy, a "cabal" thats been confessed to and that doesnt even begin to get into the extent of her terrifying sociopathic behavior. Shes also a dog murderer and an actual murderer.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Can we all just make up all the shit we want now and as long as we scream loud enough nobody will stop us?

#NotAllMen has a different meaning in this context

[–][deleted] 10 points11 points12 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

This reminds me of Animal Farm - 1) Everyone is innocent until proven guilty, but some genders are more innocent than others.

[–]The_Best_01 4 points5 points6 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

To Kill a Mockingbird is also quite relevant, even if its main focus is race and not false accusations.

[–]HotHotFingers10 points 8 years ago* [recovered] (8 children) | Copy Link

I know I post this every time, but it is official UK government policy that women crying rape because of regret or for revenge is a myth (Section 5) ... so maybe that might be a good place to start.

We are aware that there are myths and stereotypes surrounding the offence of rape. Examples of such myths include:[...]

victims cry rape when they regret having sex or want revenge;

[–]BigAl265 8 points9 points10 points 8 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

How in the holy fucking hell can they say that's a myth??? It's been documented, countless times!! That's some Holocaust denial level of cognitive dissonance.

[–]slimydogs2 points 8 years ago* [recovered] (2 children) | Copy Link

Do you have a source for that? I 100% believe you and I need something tangible to send to people when I'm making that point but I haven't found anything

[–]v574v 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Aside from the cases that this article mentioned?

I suspect I know why you haven't 'found' anything.

[–]killcat 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Because that's victim blaming, and any woman who cries rape is a victim.

[–]HotHotFingers3 points 8 years ago [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link

"They can't be making it up, because if they were making it up we wouldn't have described them as a victim" Circular reasoning at its finest.

Which leads directly to "We know she was raped, and there was only one man there so it's an open and shut case."

[–]killcat 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Pretty much.

[–]asgard616 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

Just a random Google could put up some cases to say otherwise...

case1 case2 case3

And there are cases where women regretting ONS claim they were raped. It is NOT a myth. A myth is something untrue. It is just unlikely or rare, but total plausible.

This rule/policy of "victims cry rape when they regret having sex or want revenge;" is problematic to me that isn't police should presume neither that there is nor is not a crime happened when a claim is made? Even for crime like murder or robbery, there is a chance of false claim and police should only establish the case once there is enough evidence.

With that being said, one should consider that there is a chance for any given rape claim to be false, no matter how unlikely it is. Police should put equal amount of effort and seriousness in both proving and disproving the claim made. This policy seems to remove the need for the police to consider a rape claim being an act of revenge or regret while they would be 100% open to the possibility.

edit: it is written...

[–]ash8888 6 points7 points8 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Halle - f.ucking - lujah. Treat them with compassion, but don't assume they are telling you the facts. In the case they are lying they may need phsyciatric help - and they should recieve that compassionately too.

[–]iTzinmyblood 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

All crime should be met with scepticism. That is why we have a justice system in the West. We provide evidence to prove the guilt of the defendant.

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