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Rape victims are 'too scared' to report attacks in case their sexual history is used in cross-examination. Harriet Harman, Dame Vera Baird and the Fawcett society are calling for a a reform of section 41, to stop any reference to or questioning in court about an accusers sex life.

furchfur

January 29, 2018
59 upvotes
/r/MensRights
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5326259/Rape-victims-scared-report-attacks.html
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Post Information
Title Rape victims are 'too scared' to report attacks in case their sexual history is used in cross-examination. Harriet Harman, Dame Vera Baird and the Fawcett society are calling for a a reform of section 41, to stop any reference to or questioning in court about an accusers sex life.
Author

furchfur

Upvotes 59
Comments 21
Date January 29, 2018 9:15 PM UTC
(8 years ago)
Subreddit Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/7tvmks/rape_victims_are_too_scared_to_report_attacks_in/
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/rape-victims-are-too-scared-to-report-attacks-in.1179788
https://theredarchive.com/post/1179788
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Comments

[–]5th_Law_of_Robotics 47 points48 points49 points 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

It seems the only way (female) rape victims can possibly report the crime is if they're guaranteed a conviction with no trial based only on the anonymous accusation.

[–]JStheHammer 17 points18 points19 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Bingo

[–]Pz5 9 points10 points11 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

this is called feminism and its alot like Stalinism

[–]doklaan 10 points11 points12 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

It’s already like this in the us. The only sexual history the defendant can reference is if he had sex with the accuser in the past.

[–]SiTeorbzey 7 points8 points9 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

https://www.fawcettsociety.org.uk/blog/start-calling-out-misogyny-hate-crime

I guess that should say it all read the whole thing it's infuriating

[–]Luchadorgreen 6 points7 points8 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Too bad the accused aren't afforded the luxury of not having their sexual histories examined.

[–]TruthSeekingSparrow 7 points8 points9 points 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

It's not a fair trial if prejudicial, irrelevant evidence is allowed in.

And it's not a fair trial if relevant, probative, exculpatory evidence is left out.

If a jury is inclined to believe "it must have been rape because a woman would never consent to that" then her sexual history is directly relevant if it shows she has done in the past. In other words it negates prejudice the jury probably has about female sexual purity.

Really they just care about removing any "roadblocks" to convictions.

[–]PapaLoMein 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Feminist utopia is where the single accusation alone will earn decades in prison for any guy accused.

[–]Elvick 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Pretty stupid, a judge/jury is supposed to determine relevance.

[–]PapaLoMein 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

How long before men on the jury just assumed evidence of innocence was hidden in every rape case and vote with that in mind?

[–]Flavius_Stilicho476 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Note also the move to prohibit the defense from using pre or post coital text messages.social media posts that would indicate consent.

[–]azazelcrowley 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Okay. Only allow the jury, complainant, defendant, lawyers, judge, and transcriber in the court during those kind of examinations, that's a proportionate response to potential embarrassment.

Who wants to bet this wouldn't be accepted, because the point isn't anything beyond a demand to undermine due process and the ability of men to defend themselves.

[–]gbBaku 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

No. A closed trial is a corrupt trial.

[–]McFeely_Smackup 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

it sounds like their ideal of an open trial is pretty damned corrupt already.

[–]azazelcrowley 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Fair point, I forgot the public is there to view the proceedings and keep the government in check in addition to merely the jurors.

[–]McFeely_Smackup 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

calling for a a reform of section 41, to stop any reference to or questioning in court about an accusers sex life.

Are they also moving to stop any reference or questioning about the ACCUSED's sex life? You know, the person who is on trial? The one who is supposed to be innocent until proven guilty?

[+]hixidom -8 points-7 points-6 points 8 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

I don't see how sexual history (except maybe in the vicinity of the date of the rape) is relevant to a rape trial.

[–]furchfur[S] 15 points16 points17 points 8 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

It is very relevant

In Ched Evans case it came down to consent. She acted in a certain way that led him to believe that she consented.

Two other men were tracked down who had sex with her the same week end and stated that she acted in exactly the same way with them too but she had not accused them of rape. So her past actions with other men were used to indicate that it was not unreasonable for Ched Evans to believe she was consenting

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/ched-evans-rape-case-cleared-not-guilty-sets-us-back-30-years-vera-baird-solicitor-general-womens-a7363291.html

[–]ThirdTurnip 12 points13 points14 points 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Read the article. It's right there in the first few paragraphs.

Following the allegation that the footballer had raped her in May 2011 judges made a highly unusual decision to let the jury hear from two of her former lovers.

They both gave accounts of the woman's sexual preferences that were similar to the description put forward by Evans at his original trial and he was later cleared.

No actual evidence is required to convict a man of rape. The onus is on him to prove he didn't do something which might never have happened. That's not easy.

If she claims to be sexually shy / inexperienced and to have been taken advantage of but is in fact not and her sexual partners can testify to that, then it's definitely relevant.

[–]furchfur[S] 9 points10 points11 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I think it is relevant in a great many cases. I suspect a lot of innocent men are in prison because they rarely allow past sexual history to come up when it is 100% relevant.

[–]armaadi 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

How is a history of violence relevant to a violent case? How is a history of theft relevant in a theft case?

If you don't have a history of violence, it's not relevant and it could help your case. If you don't have a history of making false claims or shitty behavior when it comes to sex, then it's not relevant and it could help your case.

Edit: To add to this. The vast, vast majority of rapes aren't women being snatched up and raped by a stranger. The vast majority is a sexual encounter with someone they know, and the rape occurs when there's an issue with consent. Most cases, the accused and the accuser don't deny they had sex. They just disagree on whether or not consent happened. If a woman has a history of having sex with guys in a certain way that leaves consent questionable, then that information may be relevant in a current case. Of course, even if a woman sleeps with anyone, that doesn't mean she can't be raped.

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