Is Patriarchy an evil in society? Are men supposed to submit to women now?

fengpi · 2018-09-09T12:39:21+00:00

The word is pretty much meaningless in the way that it gets used, but it is handy to note that the term is clearly not used in a positive way. Ever.

Consider the term "patriarchal society." If you ask the feminists: are there any non-patriarchal societies out there, except for mythology? They'll be unable to point to one (with one dubious exception, the Mosuo, but that's a matrilineal, matrilocal society in which men nonetheless fish, construct houses, slaughter pigs and farm while women work indoors; this is considered a prime example of "patriarchy" everywhere else-- I completely frustrated a small group of college feminists by pointing this out in one of their bullshit sessions; they really had to scramble to reconcile this with what they imagined to be true). So if there's no non-patriarchal society out there to contrast it with, the term "patriarchal society" carries no useful information. The term adds no real meaning in that context, it's redundant, except to add a gender component. (They play-up the link between patriarchy and men constantly.)

When you learn a foreign language, there is a skill called "finding meaning through context" in which you sense the meaning of an unknown vocabulary word from its use and the words around it. So, if we use this on "patriarchy" (in the many different contexts it is used) it seems to mean "stuff I don't like." Also, they put patri- in front of it, adding a gender component. So it's "stuff I don't like, attributed to men, but perhaps not the men standing in the room with me but they certainly aren't off the hook either." God help me, that is how the term gets used in the wild. And revealing this will result in great pushback, because they refuse to allow any non-feminist to define a feminist term.

Lethn · 2018-09-09T13:35:05+00:00

Patriarchy is a conspiracy theory made up by feminists to justify putting feminists like them into power. It's also something they use especially the term 'white patriarchy' to make white men especially feel guilty for even existing because you're supposed to feel like you're some horrible male who is part of the problem and holding women back.

This is of course bullshit and yes, I would say that it is very much a trojan horse designed to try and get feminists into power. The whole concept of the patriarchy as well revolves around blaming the actions of a tiny percentage of men at the very top on an entire gender which if it were done to any other kind of ethnic minority or women the feminists would be absolutely losing their shit.

It's no different from when Nazis blamed the Jews for everybody's problems and claimed that removing them would be a benefit to society.

2018-09-09T12:20:28+00:00

Patriarchy is a myth, it is philosophical sleight of hand used by feminists to justify their pursuit and continuance of superiority over men in society and to deny men equality rights

5th_Law_of_Robotics · 2018-09-09T14:24:02+00:00

Patriarchy is evil by definition because feminists created it as the ultimate boogie man.

It's their religion's version of Satan.

Now of course the issue here is it isn't real and they're just making stuff up for attention. But the way they use it it will always be negative.

sovereignbiopolitic · 2018-09-10T03:54:19+00:00

I took an introductory Women Gender and Sexualities class. Patriarchy , as defined by Dworkin or radical feminists, is conspiracy by men. This is a highly unlikely scenario, and belief in such would be ridiculed if applied to women or any other group besides men.

More moderate feminists consider patriarchy as a tree: its roots are ideology, its branches are government, institutions, organizations. I saw no evidence for this from my classwork, but it is more plausible. The greatest evidence I found for patriarchy actually being evil was in immigrant men beating immigrant women, which may be related to their haling from a so-called more patriarchal society. This, however, is more likely a matter of accessibility issues for immigrants due to language barriers, cultural barriers, and financial barriers.

Furthermore, women do not ordinarily consider the benefits of patriarchy. If patriarchy is the tree which supports the institutions around us, uprooting it will harm us all.

mule_roany_mare · 2018-09-09T18:56:36+00:00

The Patriarchy is such a flexible idea that I'm not convinced it means anything anymore.

Are the people in power disproportionately men? by many measures yes. But then again men do a disproportionate share of everything & are disproportionately represented in every metric both good and bad.

Is this alone evidence of bias? no.

the fact that 99.98% of men are not in powerful positions,

and 99.99% of women are not in powerful positions is not evidence of much.

Is there any real evidence that the .02% of men do anything to favor the 99.98% of men over the 99.99% of women not in power? no

Women think there is some secret club of men that operates to help other men. There isn't. Both populations are in almost the exact same position.

In fact, when a man does show someone preferential treatment or unearned kindness, it's much more likely that the recipient is a woman.

The truth is, if you are a man you have to work (and work hard) for everything you have. Not only that, but it's more likely that you will be taking care of someone else. You have to earn enough for yourself & for someone else.

I personally believe the reason men earn more on average is because they work more and harder. Career success is has more utility to a man because it's largely how women choose mates.

If women had to be successful to earn access to sex and love and affection the wage gap would shrink quite a bit.

DubsPackage · 2018-09-09T19:05:18+00:00

Patriarchy is just a way of saying, "I have a problem and it's all somehow your fault."

She could have slipped on a banana peel and be like "structural patriarchy made men feel like they could just toss banana peels in the street."

But if we check the camera and a woman threw the peel, they'll say, "Well that woman has internalized misogyny."

There's no way to win the logical argument because it's not a logical argument.

"I'm a woman, I'm responsible for nothing, nothing is my fault, men rule the world so anything bad that happens to me is because men caused or allowed it to happen."

Fuckoff555 · 2018-09-09T14:59:19+00:00

Patriarchy is word that feminists has been using for a long time to put all the blame on men. It's the cornerstone of feminism. Look at all the terms that they use, if women are being disadvantaged in some way or in any field, then they will tell you that it's because of the patriarchy even if women were a big cause of why they had that problem, like for example how women are the one who slutshame the most, how lesbian relationships had the highest rate of domestic violence and sexual assault, or how the female inmates were more likely than their fellow men to be sexually assaulted by other inmates, ect,ect. And If you tell them that, then they will say that those women have some kind of internalized misogyny caused by the patriarchy.

Now if men are disadvantaged in some way or some field, then those feminists will tell you again that it's because of the patriarchy, you tell them that women participate in those disadvantages like lying in family courts to have the custody of the children, alimony and child support, or for example how they beat or rape men and then play the victim and how they are being believed. They will tell you then that they are being believed and that they are getting their way only because the patriarchy is infantilizing women and painting them only as harmless innocent creatures, even though feminism has passed the duluth model that said that men can't be victims of domestic violence, even though feminism has opposed joint custody laws, alimony reform and gender neutral rape laws, so in the end they are being the patriarchy, that they are talking about, itself.

They will tell you how men are hindering each other with ''toxic masculinity'', which is how men should never cry, how men should never appear weak or say that were assaulted or raped by a woman since they have to enjoy it. You tell them that even women too (sometimes the female abusers themselves) can say to men those same things, so those feminists will tell you that ''toxic masculinity'' is not something that only men can encourage but women too.

You ask them then why it's not called internalized misandry like there's internalized misogyny for women, you tell them that women are the majority of slut shamers, that they are the majority of body shamers of women, that they are the majority of the ones who harass women in the workplace, and that they can victim blame women if they are victims of rape. So why it's not called '' toxic femininity'' instead of internalized misogyny? They will tell you that it's not '' toxic femininity'' since the patriarchy has made them mysogynists against their gender.

The patriarchy is the boogeyman that feminists use to blame everything on, it's the theory that they use to blame everything on men and remove any responsibility from women. It's why feminism is fucking cancer.

2018-09-09T15:03:15+00:00

That's a smart question.

For a smart answer, you need to read The Second Sexism, by David Benatar.

The well-meaning responses of the good-old-boys here won't get deep enough into the issue.

genkernels · 2018-09-10T09:09:16+00:00

Patriarchy: Patriarchy is a term used in feminism to describe the system of gender-based hierarchy in society which assigns most power to men, and assigns higher value to men, maleness, and "masculine traits".

This has never been the case in the last 200 years in European culture, possibly not the last 500. We know rather that higher social value has been assigned to women, not men (as in the Titanic in 1912, women being respected with special actions in common society duplicated only for men of high standing). That social power has been assigned for the benefit of women more than men (see female happiness, life expectancy, and generally many aspects of society that ensure women are cared for). And when women do desire direct political power, since at least the mid 1800s, they have it (see the success of temperance in 1921, Rosa Parks, Mother Jones, and much much more).

Someone who really believed that society assigned most power to men and that power benefited men would be shocked to find out that no feminist was martyred to change that. Labour movement? Tons of martyrs. Universality of the vote? Dead people. Civil rights/anti-racism? You betcha. Feminism? Nope, not a concern to the institutions of power. Patriarchy theory completely fails to predict reality.

One might say "but men receive more of the benefits of success", they also receive more of the punishments for failure. Women have a harder time reaching higher highs because of this, but are prevented from sinking to lower lows. This is not emblematic of a patriarchy, quite the opposite! Patriarchy fails to predict a whole reality. The position of a manager is a subservient one to that of the stakeholder. A society that treats more men as managers is not male-dominant if it treats women as greater stakeholders. Patriarchy theory is myopic in that while it recognizes the former it is designed to blind people to the latter, even when it is incredibly obvious (as in the case of the Titanic).

What would a society that assigns more power and value to one gender do about prison sentencing? Who should be working more hours if one group has higher value and power? I could cite more examples. There is something else at work that patriarchy (a woman-hostile view of traditionalism) cannot explain, but that a woman-benevolent view of traditionalism can explain. I say it again, patriarchy theory fails to predict reality.

Conclusion: Patriarchy is something Feminists made up based off of their revisionist history.

--

Additionally, The way "patriarchy" is usually used to describe our society in feminism is bigoted (in that it does not treat men and women as equals, insulting both genders in the process) and not a logically consistent way of looking at our society. Most gender norms don't privilege men specifically, and many don't privilege men on the whole.

Patriarchy is when a man is more likely to have more job experience than a woman. Women have the choice of normative social positions that don't involve job experience -- social positions that women are more likely to find fulfilling (and a major cause of women largely being happier than men historically). This is patriarchy because women are encouraged into roles of less social prestige, even if they may be more conducive to a satisfying life. Men being encouraged into physically dangerous jobs of low social prestige is apparently unrelated.

Patriarchy is some man in a position of authority and putting men in "high" positions. Patriarchy is the culture that drives some men to make large sacrifices to their social life and personal comfort and satisfaction for mere social respect (such as physically dangerous or otherwise demanding work). Patriarchy is the culture that drives women away from such sacrifices and towards satisfying and comfortable lives. Patriarchy is not the social rules that protect women from suffering at rock bottom, but it is the social rules that make it at all harder for women to reach the top.

Patriarchy is the social systems that disproportionately reward men for success, but not those that disproportionately punish men for failure. Patriarchy is the social systems that reward men for sacrifice, but not those that require men to sacrifice. Patriarchy is there being more men than women aboard the Titanic, but not more women surviving the Titanic than men. Patriarchy is the military of every country being largely male, but not the male-only draft in many countries (not Canada). Patriarchy is men being in positions of power that they could use to benefit themselves. Patriarchy is not men having used those systems to benefit the majority of women more than the majority of men.

Patriarchy is men not living up to or destructive and obvious misinterpretations the male gender role. Patriarchy is also men living up to the male gender role or constructive interpretations of it to the benefit of others (especially those that are also sacrificial in nature other otherwise harmful to themselves). But women living up to destructive feminine gender roles is somehow also patriarchy, not matriarchy.

Philip8000 · 2018-09-09T21:46:00+00:00

The term Patriarchy means nothing. Frankly, it means whatever the hell the individual mentioning it wants it to women. To some advocates, Patriarchy is to feminism what Satan is for devout Christians: responsible for all the maladies and problems in the world. When it comes to male issues, any of them, patriarchy is the problem; feminism is the solution. I've seen countless descriptions of this on Quora, the mainstream media, feminist forums, women's magazines...

Artemis663 · 2018-09-09T13:25:22+00:00

Without males there would be no cities, transport and space exploration would be impossible. Femlaes are so self centred they forget that modern life is the sole creation of men. Women do nothing

PM_ME_UR_PC_SPECS · 2018-09-10T02:27:18+00:00

Hey there! I am this subreddits token pro-feminist MRA. Nice to meet you.

So the topic of patriarchy is an interesting one to me.

The way I see it, there are two kinds of patriarchy, each with varying strengths in different locations.

For example, America is a Gynocentric Patriarchy, and a relatively weak one at that.

Saudi Arabia, on the other hand, is an Androcentric Patriarchy, and quite a strong one.

So. Is patriarchy an evil? Well, no. It is how our people (the human people) survived this long.

But it does more harm than good now.

Title	Is Patriarchy an evil in society? Are men supposed to submit to women now?
Author	jockhock
Upvotes	11
Comments	22
Date	September 9, 2018 12:18 PM UTC (7 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/9ecjwk/is_patriarchy_an_evil_in_society_are_men_supposed/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/is-patriarchy-an-evil-in-society-are-men-supposed.1185232 https://theredarchive.com/post/1185232

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