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[–]card86 5 points6 points7 points 8 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link
My wife has always questioned my manhood. Once, when I had hurt my back, I went to the doctor who gave me some prescriptions. I called my wife from the pharmacy and told her I was picking them up. She asked what they gave me. I told her and she said, "Did they give you anything for your vagina?" That really got to me. I'm supposed to be a carpenter, a mechanic, a landscaper, a cook and a house keeper. But it's never enough for her.
I think some people get used to being treated kindly and they take it for granted, or even take advantage of you for it. I know I feel like I've been taken advantage of for years and years.
I don't know about you, but one of my biggest fantasies is my wife coming home and telling me she's met someone and is moving out. I wouldn't bat an eye.
You'll get to where you hate her, if you don't already.
[–]20172018_Throwaway 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
My marriage had tones of this, and I grew up hearing my mom criticizing my dad, so I thought it was normal. Being put down either constantly, or jokingly, or as part of a dynamic in a relationship is wrong. You can and should shut that down as soon as possible and expect respect from your partners.
[–]card86 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
I take it you're divorced?
[–]20172018_Throwaway 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Yes. I was awakened to the behavior at marriage couselling before she called it.
[–]Departure_point 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Yes, I had words with my wife when she did this with me directly. The above example was a text with a friend. She no longer does it directly with me for fear I'll come 'unhinged'. Which is probably for the best, if you can't expunge the thinking all together. Better, though, to marry someone who isn't like this. Or, I'm coming to the conclusion better not to marry at all.
[–]Departure_point 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I don't respect her. Only an idiot makes these kinds of statements based on political differences.
This was a conversation I caught on text with her friend, not with me directly. Meanwhile, she's become sexual again.
But your story is even tougher to swallow. Are you worried about financial treatment in divorce? Kids? If not, why not initiate it? Or force it?
[–]reddixmadix 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link
Eh.
Sit her down and have a discussion with her. No ultimatums, but a very clear cut throat message.
She either respects you, or not. You don't have to live with her disrespect. And if what the message from her parent's perspective is true, she is receiving a lot of fuel to behave the way she currently is from them.
Put your foot down. If she doesn't correct her attitude, you can simply move on.
Don't go the infidelity route, better to divorce her and have a clear conscience than raise up a storm you could do without.
[–]Departure_point 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link
Struggling with how to do this. She doesn't know that I've seen all of this info. Meanwhile, she's improving her behavior and has moved from a dead bedroom wife into enthusiastic sexual accommodation. I get the impression she doesn't really want a divorce, when she thinks thru it.
I have pointed scenario based questions for an attorney. I want to work thru those before I tip my hand that I know all of this. Also, if we stay together, I may never want her to know how much I REALLY know or how I came by the info. Knowledge is power. I'm now thinking I want to play the long, prepared game and maximize my options. Which, thankfully, are many.
[–]reddixmadix 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
You said you know she wants a divorce. And now she is all lovey-dovey. Well, what prompted this change in her behavior?
Have you been more cold and distant lately? She may have noticed this change in behavior, and is reacting to it to get the upper hand. You can't know for sure what her thought process is. A dead bedroom doesn't come back to life all of a sudden, on its own. Something must have happened.
Knowledge is power, but the more you hold onto that knowledge without using it, the less powerful it is. Time has this manner of diluting things. While a confrontation now would probably have a bigger impact on her, leave it be for a while, and she might not be as shocked when you expose it. Because she has had time to process what she said, put her feelings in a row, and classify those thoughts as normal. She is sharing these thoughts now with her friends to test for opinions and normalize them. Once they settle, you won't really have a lot of power. She'll get upset at being exposed, but that will be it.
The thing you must address first is your self worth. Do you feel comfortable with her way of talking about you? Do you feel ok with her family talking like that about you? Do you feel ok with her giving so much weight to her family's opinions about the man she chose to marry? You should come first, family a close second.
Unless you have reason to think she is cheating, I think your best bet is to see why she has thoughts about divorce. What exactly is her mindset. It doesn't sound like you are really determined to divorce her either. As you put it, you have two issues: she has a lack of respect for you, and thinks Jesus will fix it, and you are in a dead bedroom (or were). Both these things can be fixed with communication.
Sit her ass down, and talk. Give her a platform to verbalize al her frustrations, if she is unhappy - why, if she is sad - why, etc. See how the two of you can find common ground.
Try going on dates again, plan activities for just the two of you. Go to the gym and buff up a little, show her you are not a girly man (eh, what can you do). Or join a sport, maybe some MMA stuff, or boxing, I don't know.
If the peace talks fail, then I would go for papers.
Of course, you can talk to a lawyer beforehand, but just to get advice, see how a potential divorce would flow, what assets you have, financials, etc.
BUT, if she is cheating (which I didn't get an impression is the case, but you never know), drop it like it's hot!
[–]Departure_point 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
She flipped the script on the dead bedroom because she got a car. At least to start. I also think she's trying to 'save her marriage' as she's worried I'm cheating.
So that's all good, overall.
Agree on the sit down...sort of...but I do like having the window into the 'real thinking' and don't want to highlight obvious opsec gaps and then have them close. So that needs to be approached delicately and possibly using legacy information in a therapy setting.
Edit: BTW, my self worth is fine. I'll have a line out the door if she leaves. Or if she stays. I just look at all that side talk and think 'what idiots' and am figuring who I'll never let in my home again. The right time to trot this info out is with verbatim quotes when joint vacations or visits to my city w/ potential hosting of friends comes up. 'You wouldn't want to stay at the house of a beta male, would you? sleep in the gutter, perhaps?' or words to that effect. ;-)
I honestly don't care if she wants to cheat. I've told her I'd go for open in a heartbeat. I don't think she likes sex enough for that to be valuable, though.
[–]reddixmadix 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
I like your style, ha ha.
Though, you have to be real here, that car only affords you a limited time of sex, until she decides you were rewarded enough, then things will return to business as usual.
As for an open marriage, there is no better and faster way to end a marriage than by opening a marriage. Don't give in into the bullshit reddit likes to spread about open marriages. The truth of the matter is there is a very small percentage of marriages that work when being opened, as in less than 1%.
At the end of the day, you are pissed off, hence your post here, but also see enough value in your marriage that are contemplating staying. You seem to lean more into staying than leaving.
Good luck.
[–]Departure_point 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link
Yup, prolly so on the Biz as usual. Sigh.
Yes, my takeaway is marriage sucks 9 out of 10 times. Tons of stuff that used to be ok is now not OK, even if your partner under performs on their promises. If you have large income and/or high sex drive, avoid if at all possible.
Thanks for the ear and well wishes. Will report back in a few months.
Edits: sp
[–]reddixmadix 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Hey, good luck.
Hope it all works out.
[–]SkeptiCynical 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link
Do Not Leave
You can ignore the other sub. You're going to get shitty advice there because that sub is pretty much a shitty extension of relationship_advice.
Read sidebar. She's virtue signaling, fight-baiting and projecting. She's engineering your divorce and mentally planning an exit. You can't stop it. Best guess is she has a handful of divorced friends she chats with on facebook. You cannot help her. You are not her love or her life partner anymore; you're a wallet. And now you're a wallet that won't give her what she wants, so you're an asshole standing between her and a better house, a better car, better clothes, more vacations...
Stop subsidizing her. She's going to take all of your money one way or another. Your divorce will be extremely high conflict because she is high conflict. You can't do anything about it.
I would start quietly liquidating any assets you can and moving cash where she can't see or touch it. Friends, parents, siblings, anyone who can hide it for you in a safe deposit box. Get it out of marital assets NOW.
You could try to change for her. Start going to church? Not pious enough. Grow a beard, get ripped and gain 40lbs of muscle? You look fucking weird now. Vote her way? You're a poseur. Make nicey-nice with her parents? She's gonna write them off real fast and keep you from talking to them too. Then she'll start making shit up - you're using drugs, you abuse her, the kids hate you. I know. I lived this.
My ex told me I smelled. I was a blackout drunk. I was disgusting. My kids dread seeing me. She sprayed Lysol on me while I slept. She told me my eyes were yellow and disgusting, I was a fucking retard, and I'd never get a promotion at work because I was a pussy.
I was a competitive runner, stopped drinking (even socially), and had just started that job a year prior. I'd had 2 raises and promoted to department lead. I have Gilbert's syndrome, a non-threatening liver condition that was quickly treated by taking vitamin D and drinking more water. She just repeated her bullshit over and over; she said it, so it has to be true, and that's all there is to it.
My ex and I miraculously had 2 kids (both were one-shot pregnancies; I knew the exact dates of conception both times because we'd only have sex once every few months). But aside from those our entire marriage was a dead bedroom. My ex made up excuses why we couldn't have sex and invented new ones. Eventually we only had sex twice a year. She wanted me to start wearing condoms because she didn't want to get pregnant. I bought a big box. She still refused, because "they aren't 100%". I told her at this rate we could have sex using condoms, with the 99% effectiveness rate, for 49 years and not approach the threshold of risk. She didn't like that.
Then she said she wanted me to have a vasectomy because she was really, really terrified of getting pregnant again. Guess what? I got the vasectomy, she and I didn't have sex for 8 fucking months. She didn't care about the vasectomy. She's asexual. We got divorced for a ton of other reasons.
You know who loves my vasectomy? My girlfriend.
My ex never paid for shit. She had never paid a student loan, a car loan, even the installment plan for her Gateway 2000 computer. Not for a cell phone, medical bills (we're talking $60). She wouldn't work after the 2nd was born. She filed bankruptcy before we were married.
She wouldn't take care of the kids either, neighbors or day care did. We were buying food on credit cards. She'd explode at very reasonable restrictions; she asked me to take $5000 cash out on a credit card so she could go to a yoga instructor class. No fucking way. She blew up again when I wouldn't pay $4000 down and $600 a month for a fucking Mitsubishi she wanted. Again, we had no money and bought food using credit cards.
To reiterate: your wife is trying to engineer the divorce. She's not interested in fixing her marriage, she's interested in her very shortsighted goal of getting you the fuck out of her life. She has already calculated how well she'll do if she can eliminate her debt (which you've already mostly done for her), skip out on the mortgage payment (which you'll have to pay) and relax once you're gone (she'll have you paying for day care or a nanny on top of private school and everything else). She's trying to bleed you dry. Don't let her do this.
Here you have 2 choices:
Follow the steps above and prepare your exit. Lawyer up but don't have her served yet, it will have an injunction clause preventing you from moving money. Disappear any cash and liquid assets. Change your account numbers and stop paying your credit cards; you can bankrupt them after you pay lawyers for the divorce. Get a restraining order against her so she has to stay out of the house. Then have her served. This is probably the tough behavior she's more attracted to.
Tell her what the fuck is up. This is a simple approach, you transform your relationship and shake her out of her blurry, confused world view. You are in control, and no divorce is going to happen. She's going to therapy or getting on hormones to treat her aversion to sex. Then introduce the idea of an open marriage because she's not performing her marital responsibilities. She'll flip her shit, but that's OK. Check recording laws in your state and record everything if you can.
Tell her you're interested in fixing the way she treats you in the marriage. Don't let on that it is possible you are to blame for any part of it. She sees your passive acceptance of celibacy, financial responsibilities and catering to her every whim as surrender of control. Stop it. Don't do things you don't like. Just as she doesn't have sex with you because she doesn't like it. She may do a 180 if you act like a tough asshole.
Next step is shaming. Tell her parents everything that's going on. Plead with her to go to therapy, but she'll probably say the church doesn't like psychologists. So go privately talk to the pastor at her church. Nowadays churches are very welcoming to agnostics so it's not like you'll be turned away by a team of nuns brandishing crucifixes.
When her religious, idealized vision of herself is stripped away she'll have to deal with the real problem: her frail, irrational, real self.
[–]Departure_point 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link
Thanks for the detailed thoughts and sharing your story. Scary stuff, but glad you got out. I have a vasectomy. Yes, life w/o worry rocks.
She's putting out again and not performing half bad. Either faking it or actually orgasming too. Quite interesting. But I agree she's setting up for divorce, but feels like she can't come to terms with what happens after a competent financial planner who pays all the bills leaves.
The girly man stuff is just stupid on her part and an outcome of foolish political indoctrination. I workout weekly. I ignore that noise. Anyway, I like the 1 / 2 punch above, with some mods.
For your own divorce, did you do the stash of assets? if so, how did that go? I'm worried that is discoverable in court, if not off-shored. Its not a small amount of money. And even some 'off-shorable'money is discoverable now, at least tax wise.
Thanks!
[–]SkeptiCynical 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
My ex did what yours is doing now. "Exaggerated sexuality" happened exactly 4 months before everything went nuclear. Enjoy it, because it may be the final sign of the apocalypse. It's also a good indicator that she's absolutely not cheating, she'd be keeping that for her side piece if she had one. She's nervous and scared and taking advantage of what is probably her last fuck for a few months / years.
I had a side business she knew very little about and got paid almost entirely in cash. I had maybe 20% of my paycheck sent to my dad's address on a paper check and cashed it instead of depositing it. We were completely broke and carried massive debt but I knew it was coming for years. I managed to put away a few grand in cash in a safe in the basement and in shoe boxes in my friends' attics (no shit. And this was like 6 years ago, not in the 60's). That's how I paid the attorney's retainer and bought a new car. I had no stocks or retirement accounts. I'd defer to your judgment how to deal with those.
Cash is not an asset when it's hidden. If the cash disappears while you're married, "both of your" money disappears and the court can't do anything about it because your assets and liabilities are shared (check your state - community or equitable?). This is also why you have to do it before the injunctions happen. Start doing it slowly now.
There's no law against it and no applicable punishment for disappearing your jointly owned cash. It's an asshole move, but guess what? You're an asshole with cash, instead of an asshole trying to engineer a divorce and squeeze every cent out of your husband.
You can burn it if you want to. Rent a jet for a few weekends. Give away cases of Cristal to your neighbors. Buy beanie babies and toss them in a volcano. Buy a few hundred iPhone X and microwave them. This is why money lost gambling or buying shit on QVC is just 'lost' and nobody comes after the other for it in divorce. It's gone. You're allowed to disappear your money and while you're married, assets and expenses are shared.
If your own personal cash disappears, it just disappears. It's nobody's business. If you have a friend who can get you a safe deposit box, put it there. Friend has no obvious interest in your finances and can't reasonably be subpoenaed unless her lawyer is an oracle.
The point is to remove as much of your own assets as you can until the divorce has blown over.
[–]Departure_point 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Thanks for the details. Yes, I need a business to make some dollars vanish. The safety deposit box might work. I think I have a few other things I need to look into, like off shoring.
I will want to be fair in a divorce, just not screwed over. I don't want my kids thinking I left their mother destitute. But I also don't want them visiting my 1 bedroom condo with dog food on the shelves either. Ha!
You're already starting to make the mistake men in divorce make: thinking you need to be fair going into it. Its part of a bizarre societal teaching that expects men to prostrate themselves and give women the advantage in competition. This is not kickball. The field is already dramatically tilted in her favor.
You do not need to be fair. You want to do everything you can to put her on her heels and to win everything you can for yourself and for your kids. Because in divorce you aren't competitive opponents-- you are actual enemies. If you start out trying to be "fair" you will lose ground and lose ground and lose ground to her and her lawyers until there's nothing left to fight for once you are angry enough to fight back. This is not a game.
Your first steps are very important. When the separation agreement is penned it will be the basis from which future agreements and the divorce agreement are made. Make the first step, get yourself an attorney, and draw up a blistering one-sided agreement from which her only choice will be to concede and backpedal.
PS starting a new business is not a good idea. It will be a marital asset. Your cash and any liquid assets have to be disappeared.
[–]23ioo1 points 7 years ago* [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link
Her attitude won't change, you're better off giving her a divorce.
[–]Departure_point 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Well, it's interesting. I agree the BS around her political rhetoric won't change. I just need to avoid political discussions and school the kids offline.
Her attitude has already changed for the better, amazingly. I see where she visited a counselor. I think he told her what she needed to do if she wanted to stay married and it's produced adjustments. All without ever asking me. Very interesting. I need to see a lawyer anyway, but am inclined to led this ride and see where it goes.
[–]AintNoOneThing 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
You have already decided, and are asking us to help you feel better about it or help you try to make more sense of it. You are going to feel like crap even if it is the best move for you. Its unlikely that you will feel 'settled' about the choice anytime in the immediate future - but that does not mean it is wrong. You can be a good father without being married. Many men do it.
[–]Departure_point 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Nah. There is what I'd like to do, what's best to do and what I'm willing to do.
Like: divorce Best: make it work til college or at least exit on my timeline Willing: Any
[–]AintNoOneThing 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
I just came out the other end of making the same decision you are making, and it was a mistake for me. What is "best" is what is true and honest, IMO. There will likely be increasing damage to yourself and those around you as you try to hold the illusion together under increasing pressure. Generating a tense and toxic environment does no good for anyone regardless of a noble intent to provide the appearance of stability. The reality will bleed through and do great harm to all involved. Including you.
Not to say I think you should do one thing or another, but your post sure makes it sound as if you have already exited the marriage in all but formality. All that remains is to be honest about it.
Thanks for that. All fair.
How long did you take to exit once you had decided? And when were you spiritually ‘out’? Any kids?
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[–]card86 5 points6 points7 points (6 children) | Copy Link
[–]20172018_Throwaway 1 point2 points3 points (3 children) | Copy Link
[–]card86 0 points1 point2 points (2 children) | Copy Link
[–]20172018_Throwaway 2 points3 points4 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]Departure_point 1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]Departure_point 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]reddixmadix 2 points3 points4 points (6 children) | Copy Link
[–]Departure_point 0 points1 point2 points (5 children) | Copy Link
[–]reddixmadix 1 point2 points3 points (4 children) | Copy Link
[–]Departure_point 0 points1 point2 points (3 children) | Copy Link
[–]reddixmadix 1 point2 points3 points (2 children) | Copy Link
[–]Departure_point 0 points1 point2 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]reddixmadix 1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]SkeptiCynical 1 point2 points3 points (5 children) | Copy Link
[–]Departure_point 1 point2 points3 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]SkeptiCynical 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]Departure_point 0 points1 point2 points (2 children) | Copy Link
[–]SkeptiCynical 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]SkeptiCynical 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]23ioo1 points [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]Departure_point 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]AintNoOneThing 0 points1 point2 points (3 children) | Copy Link
[–]Departure_point 0 points1 point2 points (2 children) | Copy Link
[–]AintNoOneThing 0 points1 point2 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]Departure_point 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link