_ _ Mental Masturbators _ _

Mental Masturbation: "The act of engaging in useless yet intellectually stimulating conversation, usually as an excuse to avoid taking constructive action in your life" (urban dictionary).

I'll throw out the way I tend to use the word most: People who "get off" on talking of subjects they fantasize about, but only toy around with in practice.

A post recently showed up titled "The (True) Biblical Argument for 'Lifting Is Not A Suggest.'" It was written by a man who self-described: "For full accountability: I'm fat. 6'4" 300lbs." I wrote a post not too long ago, titled: Anything You Can Do I Can Do Better. One of the thrusts of the post was that people here should be asking themselves before posting: Have I earned the right to post on this subject? I concluded: "This is not an open free-for-all. This is a place for people who are serious and want to grow."

To that poster's credit, he seemed to be growing. But I stand by the fact that this place is not for keyboard jockeys to steal a platform they haven't earned. I have met many men here in-person or spoken face-to-face over Zoom - /u/praexology, u/redirectedfs, /u/TheChristianAlpha, among many others - and even, most notably in this context: /u/OsmiumZulu. I can attest that these men are the real deal. This sub has become increasingly relaxed about permitting content from those who aren't.

No, your ability or failure to bench 300+lbs does not directly affect your intellectual capacity to exegete Scripture. But it does affect the lenses through which you interpret it. I've scarcely ever seen an obese pastor preach a sermon on gluttony. I've yet to see a woman pastor preach a sermon on the biblical premise for why women should not be leaders in the church. I've never found a pastor who isn't solid on Scripture memory preach a sermon about the importance of memorizing Scripture.

In the same vein - and not intending to be cruel, rather to point out the blunt reality: are we at all surprised when a 300lb man wants to argue the nuances of Scriptural interpretation regarding the degree to which men should be taking care of their bodies? And to use the exact same eisegetical and logical-leaping strategies that he accused OZ of using is humorous, at best - misleading this body of believers, at worst. This is the definition of mental masturbation. No.

Also significant: Any time someone claims to have the "true" anything, treat the claim with great skepticism - even if it's coming from me. In this case, the "True Biblical Argument" was just another hollow stab at pretending one avenue of beating around the bush was better than another.

_ _ The Bible _ _

You'll notice that OZ's original "Lifting Is Not A Suggestion" post is the only one on the entire sidebar that's bolded. Does that mean it's more important than all the other content? Nope. But it does mean it's the one that most guys need to start with when they first come here complaining about how awful their marriage/dating life is.

The "Biblical" Foundation ... is Lacking

You'll notice from the post immediately that OZ did not intend it to be an exegetical-heavy post. It isn't there to create a Scriptural foundation for the practice of hitting the gym. The reality is that there's no exegetical basis in Scripture for how many plates you should bench or squat, or what your body fat should be. We all get that.

Any verse that could be interpreted to imply the level of body-building/strength-training that we encourage here could also just as easily (sometimes even more easily) be interpreted in another way that wouldn't support our model at all. I'm okay with that.

And why would we expect the Bible to address lifting in the first place? The cultural dynamic is also different today than it was back then. Instead of walking from town to town, we ride cars, bikes, or even things like my son's Christmas present that don't require any more muscular action than tilting your foot a degree or two. Instead of eating predominantly what grows from the ground, meat, and bread, we're inundated with greasy fried foods plastered on billboards, tv commercials, and signs creating pavlovian responses toward obesity.

Suffice it to say: I'm not persuaded that obesity or muscular atrophy were such great problems in the biblical days that would have warranted a clear biblical statement. I'm also not persuaded that Jesus made sure all his apostles could bench 300+ lbs with a six pack either.

Don't Be An Idiot

Is there a subreddit for Christian physicists? I love physics. It's fun to study it. Wouldn't it be so much fun to go on a subreddit for Christian physicists and start attacking them: "Your biblical basis for comprehending mass and acceleration is totally weak!" That's called being an idiot, for lack of other words that the reddit admins are now banning us for using (though I have a post for that too).

  • Obviously subreddits for Christian physicists are going to include discussions of equations, scientific theories, etc. that involve things they learned outside the Bible.

  • Obviously subreddits for Christian lawyers are going to include discussions of statutes, arguments, etc. that involve things they learned outside the Bible.

  • Obviously subreddits for Christians who want to talk about building attraction are going to involve discussions of physical, mental, emotional, and ... yes, even spiritual "game" (or for /u/Deep_Strength's benefit, let's call it "passively internalized attraction factors") that we've learned outside the Bible.

I frequently talk about the knowledge hierarchy: theology >>> science >>> philosophy. I note that philosophy is "logical reality," if the world were a logical place all the time; but science one-ups it by addressing "observable reality," if the world always functioned in scientifically predictable ways (i.e. in the absence of miracles); while theology addresses "actual reality." Yeah, this is one of those "the TRUE thing" statements I'm making. Feel free to test that claim yourself.

The hierarchy exists because we recognize that one method of answering questions and solving problems won't have all the answers. It isn't to shame lesser degrees of thought. It's to make sure they are used in their proper place and to empower them - that as we recognize where theology is silent, we move to science; and when both are at a loss, we defer to logic and philosophy. The Bible doesn't teach us that 2+2=4, yet I'd be hard-pressed to function in my day job if I didn't rely on that scientifically observable reality.

You'd be a fool to reject such useful information as the very foundations of mathematics on the principle that "the Bible didn't say it, so I won't acknowledge it."

You'd be a fool to reject such useful information as the very foundations of the principles of attraction on the ... principle that "the Bible didn't say it, so I won't acknowledge it."

Don't be an idiot.

_ _ Why Lifting Isn't A Suggestion HERE _ _

The Surface Level

For RPC purposes, lifting is a mandatory part of our prescriptive advice. I maintain that the red pill is descriptive, not prescriptive. But there are some realities that are so broadly true that it's hard to reach any other conclusion. In the case of developing attraction - whether for the single guys who come here complaining they can't get a date, or the married men who complain their wives won't sleep with them - we have to assess quickly: Are you here to accomplish the goals you're asking about, or are you just mentally masturbating?

It's been said a number of times: Looks aren't everything, but they are the difficulty level you're playing on.

When we tell a guy to hit the gym, are we commanding: "This is a theological imperative, and you're sinning if you're not"? Well, I suppose someone did suggest that, but he's not endorsed ;) No, we're not making a theological conclusion.

Instead, we're making a broader statement: The chances of you developing an idyllic frame and tight social, mental, emotional, and spiritual game to the degree that you will achieve all of your relationship and sexual goals while still being over 25% body fat and unable to bench your own bodyweight is so low that if you're serious about your goals you must treat lifting and dieting as mandatory.

If you're not willing to put in the effort to lift, then we are treating your goals as unachievable. In this sense, it is not a suggestion.

The Deeper Reality

I've also noted a number of times that RPC is a giant bait-and-switch. Men start here with the aim of improving their relationship/sexual prospects - and we can help you with exactly that. But my greater purpose is - and always has been - my mission: to make disciples. I want to get guys following the Jesus of the Bible. For many men in the manosphere, a healthy relationship/sex life is a milestone still ahead of them in that journey, not a waypoint they've already hit and somehow lost track of. So, if they start at A, a healthy relationship is B, a healthy sex life is C, and Jesus is moving on to D, then E, then F, etc. - well, getting them from A to B to C is part of the process of moving men to follow Jesus. No, it's not all of it. That's why I refused to stop the sidebar series with only the 100s and 200s - why I continued to add at least the basics of following Jesus as the 300 series, or dealing with complex sin/emotional/whatever struggles as the 400 series, even though at the time it felt grossly out-of-place on this sub. But for many men, these relational/sexual pursuits actually will be the starting point.

For most of these guys, their relational/sexual dysfunction is so blinding to them that they cannot see anything past it. They cannot get on board with making disciples for Christ, much less follow him themselves, until they see that "the light at the end of the tunnel" will let them drain their balls every now and then.

To put it another way: If we want guys following Jesus, we have to get them past the immediate roadblocks holding them up. If a guy's physical shape is so poor that he can't jump either the literal or metaphorical hurdles he comes across in life, then he's never going to be an effective Kingdom-builder.

Is it possible to help you all develop such a great frame that you don't need to be physically fit? Yes. But it'd probably take half a decade of training, life-modeling, etc. that I simply don't have to give. And why would I when I can accomplish the same level of progress with the next guy over in 1/10th the time because he's actually willing to hit the gym and I don't have to put in any more effort than tell him: "DYEL, bro?"

No, that's not a testament to the laziness of not wanting to put in the time to train men. It's a testament to the fact that we won't waste our time to train the man who isn't willing to train himself; yet for the one who does, we don't have to waste the time on intricate nuances and advanced concepts of frame projection or what-have-you because we can get down to business in being effective for the Kingdom far sooner. And the man who lifts will be playing life on easy mode, meaning he's far more likely to be effective, multiplying our efforts beyond what the other man will ever likely achieve. That's a wise choice.

Seriously: think about that for two seconds. Imagine two guys are competing against each other to see who can survive the longest in a game of Tetris. The competition rules are ambivalent toward what difficulty you play on. One man is playing on easy mode and the other is playing on "dear God just kill me now" mode. Your job is to train one of these guys to beat the other. Could you train the second guy to win? Possibly. But that would be the foolish choice. Being effective for God's Kingdom is not an area of life where we should take on the challenge just for the sake of it being challenging. Yeah, I like the challenge every now and then too. But when it comes to the Kingdom I will always prioritize being effective over testing my ego. No mental masturbating over theory. If you want to achieve a goal, put in the work. When you've proven yourself, then we can talk the finer points - if we even need to at all.

Here's a quick hint: There's a reason MRP/RPC rarely ever talk about "advanced" topics. Because most men never need them. Why not? Because they hit the gym, after which the basics are more than enough to get them where they need to be.