united is better (let's join feminism and men's rights)

duhhhh · 2020-09-16T22:40:58+00:00

So this begs the question-- why don't we fight together?

Patriarchy theory?

The dictionary definition of feminism is noble. But we see what the influential feminist researchers, professors, lobbiests, public policy makers, and journalists actually say and do and are left with the impression feminism is the most powerful anti-equality movement today. We only see a handful of "true" feminists (mostly hated by other feminists) calling them out on it, so why should we consider feminists our allies?

JohnDoethan · 2020-09-16T22:59:26+00:00

As someone who's definition of feminism is the theory of the political, economic, and social equality of the sexes

You are an egalitarian.

a-man-from-earth · 2020-09-17T01:53:17+00:00

We don't fight together because in practice most feminist organizations are against men's rights. Just look at the reactions to (now former) feminist Cassie Jaye making a documentary about the men's rights movement.

Oculi_of_Ungoliant · 2020-09-16T23:01:15+00:00

I think feminism can and has been incredibly useful... but 99% for women alone, with men having gained very little from it. In fact, significant groups of feminists have actually created more casual and systemic misandry.

The MRM no doubt has issues, particularly when it comes to coherency, in my opinion. And there are some questionable members. However, compared to feminism, it has a much cleaner profile.

For MRM it's simply about looking useful to men and looking flawless to feminists; what I mean is that, no MRA, under any circumstances, should stoop to the level of the feminist anger and hatred that they so despise. To validate the MRM, the members need to be better than the people they're up against.

Feminism on the other hand, needs to literally be cleaned and rid of the common toxicity writhing within it. The unchecked hate and vilification needs to be muzzled, and the sheer audacity of feminist lobbying needs to be regulated... not to mention, lobbying should be based on fact - not theory (you know what theory I'm talking about...)

So yeah, we can work together, but feminists would need to put far more effort into collaboration and cleaning up their mess before doing so.

Bojack35 · 2020-09-16T23:46:51+00:00

I love the sentiment, but it is not practical.

I have said before on here that in my opinion the primary distinction between feminism and MRA is not their stated goal of gender equality, in that they are in agreement.

The distinction lies in the explanation for gender inequality and the solution to it.

Feminism blames gender inequality on a false description of society as being a patriarchy, uses sexist terminology to place the blame onto solely men and proposes a solution of dismantling a patriarchy which doesnt exist and legislating sexist laws to promote women in society in the name of equality.

MRA blames gender inequality on biological differences and the social evolution of a society and workforce which was heavily impacted by those differences. Then that attempts to modify these imbalances in the last 50 years have focused near exclusively on women and have resulted in a society that is misandrist. MRA solution is to promote genuine equality and remove sexist legislation.

At least this is my understanding. Feminism can not be compatible with MRA or egalitarianism until it stops blaming men for cultural issues and pretending the patriarchy exists.

excess_inquisitivity · 2020-09-17T00:36:11+00:00

As someone who is a very vocal intersectional feminist, I had often dismissed or ridiculed the men's rights movement because of all the hateful rhetoric towards womxn as well as the determination that womxn are not discriminated against (lack of patriarchal society). However, after doing research, digging up more information, I realised that many feminists (including myself) had a very skewed view of the men's rights movement.

That's a start.

A lot of the issues many men's rights activists fight for, I, and many other feminists actually support (mental health, courtroom bias, etc).

yay.

As someone who's definition of feminism is the theory of the political, economic, and social equality of the sexes,

You do not represent the feminists in power. You do not. And you may never understand that you do not represent them, muchless why you do not represent them, or they you.

I find it frustrating that men's rights issues are not included in feminist rhetoric.

They are, and they're blamed on patriarchy.

So this begs the question-- why don't we fight together?

Post this in /R/FEMINISMS. See how much the care.

As a person of color, who was often excluded from early feminist speech, I also very much understand the notion that feminism isn't really fighting for all of us. However, I also feel, that through awareness, empathy, and understanding, feminism can be another platform in which we can discuss men's rights issues on a larger scale than ever before.

You don't hold the key to that gate. Another, more powerful feminist let you in, and another, more powerful feminist can kick you out. If you don't believe me, ask Cassie Jaye.

I genuinely think that by raising awareness and making the Feminist community more aware of men's rights issues, we can make feminism better and more inclusive and true to its original definition.

I think by raising awareness despite feminist action to the contrary will do more. Men are already shunning marriage, and avoiding women in the workplace.

Doing this requires work, and effort, and open dialogue. (Sadly, feminists don't want this.), but I think it's something that is necessary for both the feminist and the men's rights movements. If we fight feminism together, our voices are louder.

mikesteane · 2020-09-16T23:44:29+00:00

Do you believe that in the past women were oppressed and that this oppression needs to be compensated for now? Do you believe in patriarchy theory? If the answer to either of these questions is yes, you have your answer.

EricAllonde · 2020-09-17T06:17:06+00:00

womxn

That's a dead giveaway that someone is a rabid ideologue with nothing worthwhile to say.

patriarchal society

When feminists talk about "patriarchy", they just mean the foundational elements of western civilisation, e.g.:

equality before the law / blind justice
presumption of innocence and right to due process
democracy / one vote per person
meritocracy / anti-discrimination
equal pay for equal work
the family
etc

As we've seen, feminists will attack each of those foundational elements in the pursuit of their goals: increased power for feminism, increased privileges & special benefits for women. Indeed they have attacked each of them on numerous occasions and they continue to do so.

When feminists say they want to "smash the patriarchy" they mean they want to destroy western civilisation by attacking all of its foundational elements.

That's why it's important to never indulge or pander to feminsm at all. It must be firmly opposed at every step. Our freedoms and the very future of civilisation is at stake.

EmirikolWoker · 2020-09-16T23:35:48+00:00

The core principle of all forms of feminism is anti-male bigotry. It's a logical necessity for their Patriarchy to function. Men's rights advocacy is therefore inherently antifeminist.

Ody_ssey · 2020-09-17T03:52:22+00:00

What do you want to see in place of patriarchy?

user_miki · 2020-09-17T08:39:29+00:00

There is no together. We have different definitions of equality.And most active and representative MRA are anti-feminists.

For example:

ELIZABETH HOBSON

from Justice for men and boys active MRA,she was standing in the rain distributing fliers in London promoting men's rights.

ABOUT ELIZABETH HOBSON

Elizabeth is a mother of two boys, and the leader of this political party. She's an anti-feminist, Gender Equality Activist, Libertarian, and Individualist who wants to end the Sex War – artificially constructed by feminists – and pursue a more just society based on Liberal values, such as liberty, equality and meritocracy.

More and more people found about menl's rights problem and feminist started panicking afraid of loosing funds.

2020-09-16T23:37:08+00:00

So you need men's rights to make feminism work now, huh?

Title	united is better (let's join feminism and men's rights)
Author	galaxyqueensparkles
Upvotes	0
Comments	18
Date	September 16, 2020 10:35 PM UTC (5 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/iu6hok/united_is_better_lets_join_feminism_and_mens/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/united-is-better-lets-join-feminism-and-mens.1195314 https://theredarchive.com/post/1195314

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ABOUT ELIZABETH HOBSON