Is the male libido in the way of an egalitarian society?

Melthengylf · 2020-01-28T17:13:28+00:00

It is not male libido. This is a crucial idea I take as an objective to dismantle.

While I can relate to that situation, I have at least always known that certain kinds of behavior are not acceptable, no matter how horny you are.

It is not about rationally being against. It is about having the emotional resources to navigate pain, in this case, the pain of sexual frustration. One of the most important resources is unconditional acceptance of feelings, which gets blocked by shame (which is the reason I always say it is shame, not libido, what causes sexual harassment behaviours).

and the men who responded made the situation worse via some really ill-advised "humorous" statements.

This very clearly is not related in any way with the male libido.

Sewblon · 2020-01-28T19:46:17+00:00

On the one hand, about half of misogynistic comments are sent by women, at least according to one study. https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/may/26/half-of-misogynistic-tweets-sent-by-women-study-finds So just assuming that these comments are coming from men isn't really sound. On the other hand, there is academic research indicating that men really do have higher sex drives than women, and that really does slant the bargaining power in a heterosexual relationship towards the woman. http://www.catherinehakim.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/2015-IntSoc-MaleSexualDeficit.pdf.

So I am going to go with: Yes. But not in the way that OP said. More like the opposite.

GaborFrame · 2020-01-28T22:03:42+00:00

There is a point where a comment becomes too vulgar, and most or all of the example comments from the video clearly cross that line.

However, I object to the notion that any kind of compliment based on looks automatically undermines the person's competency or value in other areas. And there comes a point where telling people to never mention it under any condition or else you're oppressing the other person becomes repressive, puritanical or whatever you want to call it.

Online commenters say really mean shit about all kinds of people, often precisely about those things the person is likely to be insecure about (it's how bullies operate). They shouldn't do that, but should you really let that stop you?

SamHanes10 · 2020-01-28T21:58:40+00:00

I do think your point has some merit in it, but I'd like to take a different tack. I think the male libido is more of a problem for (heterosexual) men themselves, it that it opens men up to being exploited by women. In addition, I think the male libido is could be managed effectively through a completely different means - educating boys and men about the ways in which their libido allows them to be exploited, and making them mindful to avoid being taken advantage of by women in this way.

However, I suspect such moves will be strongly opposed by many women (including feminists), unless the narrative is that 'men are bad lecherous fools'. Unfortunately, I don't think the latter narrative would be effective to educate men and boys, and it usually results in people treating the male libido as some kind of 'thoughtcrime' e.g. that it is wrong to 'objectify' women, implying that sexual attraction itself is at fault, rather than that teaching them that the actual problem is their behaviour - behaviour can be controlled, thoughts and feelings can not.

InitiatePenguin · 2020-01-29T00:30:07+00:00

I wouldn't call "make libido" for 3 reasons.

Men have different libidos and plenty of men never behave in a way close to what you say.
I reject it's the sex drive itself that creates this behavior. Unless the men making these comments receive sexual pleasure in their harassment. And if so, that's still only half the equation.
It abdicates responsibilty and consequences of actions taken by the person.

GaborFrame · 2020-01-29T13:31:45+00:00

On another note (jumping off what I said in this comment), I think that what the "woke" narrative says about "inclusivity" is quite skewed or flawed.

For example, let's take a look at the car mechanic who has a poster of a busty woman in his garage, or who has a shirt like Matt Taylor (I first wrote "that NASA shirt guy, but I corrected myself because the man is a brilliant and accomplished scientist and it would be disrespectful to reduce him to one incident where he was needlessly hounded by the mob).

Is this an example of monstrous sexism towards his female coworkers? Is he being intolerant and exclusive of women? Is the ultimate model of inclusivity here removing any potentially scandalous or offensive items from sight? Or could inclusivity also mean that female employees also get to display potentially 'dubious' objects of their own choice (maybe a poster of a topless Taylor Lautner or Chris Hemsworth? Maybe some ghastly kitschy decorations? Maybe a "Smash the patriarchy" poster? Of course I'm giving rather gendered examples, but these objects needn't be typically 'feminine', they just need to be reflective of the person's quirks.)

Would it not be more inclusive to accept each other's quirks than to suppress them?

mtcapri · 2020-01-28T17:28:05+00:00

While I certainly agree that creepy, sexist online comments about appearance is something women have to deal with to a far greater degree than men, I'm always a little bit skeptical when I hear people claim that this is what's holding women back from being successful on YouTube, for example. The woman the video you linked to claims that these comments increase the pressure of female YTers to "be the whole package," meaning be knowledgeable and good presenters, but also be attractive, or that the sheer number of sexist comments turns them off from posting. While I can certainly see how annoying having to deal with those comments is for women, her claims beg the question: does she honestly feel these things in response to said comments? Do other female YTers actually feel this way? Maybe they do and are just staying quiet about it, but I'm genuinely curious as to whether or not these comments are having the effect this woman claims or if she's just inferring it as a possible effect to explain the dearth of female STEM presenters on the platform.

At any rate, that's all kind of beside the point of your post, so I digress.

With respect to your actual question, no, I don't think the male libido poses a problem for egalitarianism. Reason being, I don't think these comments have anything to do with any supposed greater libidinous drive in men. Plenty of men with very high sex drives don't make these comments. No, the problem, I think, lies in the anonymity and distancing effects that the internet provides. I would wager that a lot of the people making those comments aren't even really thinking about the person who posted the video seeing them, and are actually posting them for other users to read and respond to. Yeah, there are real creeps out there who probably post specifically with the idea of the host reading them, but I'd honestly guess most the "creepy" comments aren't actually from creeps, just very inconsiderate posters who aren't mindful of how the host can see their comments and the impact it has on them. It's like they're making those comments to a third party, but within earshot of the person they're about. Insensitive, to be sure, but not indicative of an actual threat.

And again, this isn't about libido, it's about insensitivity in the context of online etiquette. Even if it's true that men have greater sex drives than women on average (a claim I'm not certain is truly established yet, despite the common wisdom about it), so what? We as a society will have to deal with that, just as we have to deal with the fact that girls and boys mature at different rates, and men are physically stronger than women. And I don't see why that's a threat to egalitarian laws or policies. Everyone can ultimately be held to the same standards of behavior, while we still acknowledge that men and women might need varying levels of support in reaching those standards. Men might have to take extra care in managing their own sexual desires; so be it—we should be teaching them how, not demonizing them for having greater sex drives! Likewise, women might have a greater need to arm themselves with self-defense courses to account for the fact that men have a physical advantage over them. There's nothing wrong with acknowledging that biological differences between the sexes warrant differences in how men and women cope in society, all while preserving egalitarian standards (e.g. hitting someone is wrong, no matter your gender, and punishments should be the same for a woman hitting a man as the reverse, regardless of the woman being less able to inflict damage on the man).

Oncefa2 · 2020-01-28T17:31:12+00:00

[permanently deleted]

2020-02-12T06:18:06+00:00

but there is this special kind of comments that are pretty creepy and at the very least border on sexual harassment,

When women make creepy comments, it's a matter of joke and laughs.

Title	Is the male libido in the way of an egalitarian society?
Author	GaborFrame
Upvotes	2
Comments	39
Date	January 28, 2020 4:47 PM UTC (6 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/comments/ev7xw4/is_the_male_libido_in_the_way_of_an_egalitarian/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/is-the-male-libido-in-the-way-of-an-egalitarian.1201017 https://theredarchive.com/post/1201017

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