Can a extremely misogynistic man be saved with maybe therapy? Anyone here that was very misogynistic change for the better? How/why? Did anyone become less misogynistic after getting in a relationship?

baiser_vole · 2023-08-03T16:32:53+00:00

I have asked my therapist whether it is possible to convince people or not? She said, only when they are willing to listen and ready to change their minds.

throawawaynumber9999 · 2023-08-03T16:34:45+00:00

I want to provide examples of how violently misogynistic he was but I don’t feel comfortable. So I understand if anyone doesn’t feel comfortable commenting what the severity of their misogyny was like here either. But I feel the answer to my question really depends on the extent so pls dm or message

CommentsEdited · 2023-08-03T16:40:56+00:00

First, it's really sweet of you to be asking this. I hate that it so often "falls to our women" to be the olive branch, offered by life, to pull us out of the river of hate and self-doubt. Especially when those of us who are most hurting tend to take it out on those very women.

Which is the second point: You didn't say he was abusive towards you*, so I'll assume for the moment that he wasn't. That makes the above "olive branch" less perilous. But if he is abusive, or just makes your life miserable, you don't owe him shit, in my opinion. Even if someone can be saved, it should never fall to their abuse victims, if any, to carry that load. Those people should just leave.

Is misogyny just an anger thing? If he gets help for that, which I will suggest he does. Will that improve the misogyny?

Disclaimer: I'm not a mental health professional.

I think misogyny is almost always rooted in self-hatred, and frequently comes from the burden of feeling like, as a man, we "start with a blank slate", and have no intrinsic worth. That's supposed to be a good thing — meritocracy and proving your mettle, and all that. It's certainly a better deal than women get. But it has a huge dark side: To whatever extent you fall short of being everything a man is supposed to become, you have no excuse, except "I must be dogshit, as a man. Because I had maximal opportunity, right?" We're desperately hungry for unconditional love, and many of us think women are born with that, because they are prized for their bodies and reproductive functions, and are "pursued"... another thing we envy.

Then there's confirmation bias: If you're heterosexual, your most intense emotional experiences with other people, including the heartbreaks, always come from the opposite sex. That's just math, but it's hard to keep it in perspective.

From the POV of a man struggling to be what he thinks a man is supposed to be, women can seem like the "cruel, entitled gatekeepers" blocking access to a huge chunk of what he's supposed to have access to, by "doing everything right". For that reason, I think it's very difficult for a woman to "save" a man from misogyny, unless he's willing to immerse himself in mutual, open and vulnerable communication, and not feel betrayed when a woman simply acts like he does: A unique individual, who doesn't see herself as an accessory to him. For some, that's impossible.

I think the real, sustainable answer is: Men need to help each other, and give women a break from being mom, girlfriend, and therapist all in one, while dodging punches and abuse at the same time.

Edit: *Oops, I just saw this comment from you:

I want to provide examples of how violently misogynistic he was but I don’t feel comfortable.

So now it does sound like abuse is perhaps on the table here. That makes me extremely reluctant to suggest you be the one to take this on, regardless of how "salvageable" he might be. Please be careful. You deserve better.

fathergoose77 · 2023-08-03T17:03:22+00:00

Sounds like he has a lot of hurt from his childhood/parenting dynamics that he needs to process. Definitely some mom stuff going on there. I think therapy could help him process those things, but he has to be willing. Lots of dudes would rather get angrier and angrier at the world rather than look inwards to find where all that anger is really coming from.

TopIncrease6441 · 2023-08-03T18:10:37+00:00

That depends on what kind of human he is. Often times men and women go to therapy to be enabled deeper into their antics. The therapist isn’t working with anyone but the patient and sympathizes with the patient because that’s what they’re being paid to do. They’re not hearing other sides of the story they can only hear whatever you tell them and advise based on that.

If he wants to become less misogynistic he has to unlearn biases and open yourself to the other perspective, really and truly. He’s never going to empathize with women if he have no knowledge as to what they really go through. Read books, read articles, read statistics, read academic journals, talk to WOMEN who study it. A lot of women feel what they go through but aren’t able to put it into words and communicate it.

But it has to start with him wanting to do it for the sake of women and a better self, not feed his ego because he now considers himself an “ally 🥹”

A therapist could possibly help him over come the insecurity and fear around women that got him to this point but that’s about it I believe.

Either way, you need to get out of that situation. It’s not your responsibility to change someone that doesn’t want to be changed. You need to revoke his access to you so that he can understand this has consequences. You’re not Cinderella babe, you can’t kill it with kindness.

_Terrible_Advice_ · 2023-08-03T21:45:33+00:00

Be careful. It's not your responsibility to 'fix' someone. Changing someone's outlook is a difficult task, even for a therapist. I don't think it's healthy to date a 'project'.

vcreativ · 2023-08-06T12:06:48+00:00

I found out the stuff he posted before we were together and it broke my heart.

An aside: I realise that people are quite used to talking about "broken hearts". But the integrity of our hearts is only within our own sphere of influence. That doesn't mean things can't deeply hurt. They do, but hearts are only able to break if they were brittle before the fact. Which is an us problem.

It was anonymously no less, which makes me think he wasn’t just being edgy on the internet and rather that’s how he really feels.

This is an assumption, which is fine, but you're relying on this for negative thoughts at your own peril which is anti-CBT, basically. Assumptions can be treacherous.

He might be anonymous because he's exploring contradictory feelings to see how it feels expressing them. The issue isn't the action, it's the reasoning and the context. A deeply reflective person may well journal dark thoughts they feel during depressive episodes for example. In a way one could argue you've stumbled on his diary. That being said, he doesn't sound particularly reflective, so it's hard to tell without knowing him.

He’s a smart and accomplished man so it’s scary he would so easily fall into this.

It's an emotional problem. It doesn't matter how smart of accomplished he seems on the surface. There are different planes of existence that get integrated through active development, which isn't the norm for most people. Even worse, many people flee from the emotional pain into accomplishment, since it's often cognitively and definitely emotionally easier to achieve.

He has a really bad relationship with his mom, who I would say was abusive when he was young. At least based off what he’d told me.

Fair. Not his fault, but his to fix.

Is misogyny just an anger thing?

Depending on your level of abstraction every "issue" someone has relates back to pain and/or anger because of it. Misogyny is high level anger with a clear projected audience.

If he gets help for that, which I will suggest he does. Will that improve the misogyny?

Kind of impossible to answer. Therapy isn't a passive process. It depends on him and his reaction to therapy. It's a process that relies quite heavily on emotional openness and reflective capacity and skill.

Also the patient needs to be actively interested in change (cf active patient). Therapy is just a catalyst for a process that needs to be underway independently.

Maybe therapy can act as a launchpad for people with previously untapped reflective potential.

You won't be able to fix someone (for lack of a better phrase) that isn't particularly interested in getting fixed.

Lady_Beatnik · 2023-08-05T15:46:41+00:00

Nobody in the history of the world has become less misogynistic after getting into a relationship.

As for therapy, it really depends on the person. Why they act that way, if they're willing to listen and change, etc.

slfnflctd · 2023-08-03T18:33:13+00:00

I knew someone like this.

Is it possible for them to change? Yes. Whether it's likely to happen is a whole other question-- and even if it does, how long will it take? Competent therapists can be hard to find. The guy I knew didn't even start to work through the worst of his issues until well into his 30s after several failed attempts, and it took years before he made noticeable progress.

This is a project that isn't your responsibility. It's his. I'd suggest writing your thoughts out (including saying you'll keep your distance for a while), and then keeping your distance for a while. Or indefinitely. The odds are not in favor of a good outcome, especially not any time soon.

Philip8000 · 2023-08-04T00:02:32+00:00

Perhaps he can, but you're not obligated to stick around while he works through his misogynistic views. I'm not a professional therapist, but this can very easily turn into him venting his frustrations onto you.

BlissfulBlueBell · 2023-08-05T10:47:57+00:00

They can only be saved when they truly want to be saved, for themselves. They have to get tired of being lonely, they have to get tired of the relationships with the women in their lives tanking or being unhealthy, they have to get tired of feeling inadequate in the presence of women. They can't change for anyone else, only when they are ready to seek relief from the pain their misogynistic attitudes are causing them (and maybe the women if he has any empathy. But it'll take a lot of self reflection and accountability on his end)

And sometimes leaving them (and not coming back. Coming back enables and emboldens their behavior) has to be the catalyst for change. They may have to get dumped multiple times before changing. Based on what you've said in this post, your partner would have to go therapy consistently for years before making any real long lasting positive change.

Id highly recommend the book "why does he do that" by lundy Bancroft. He also has a YouTube channel talking about this topic (if abusive or misogynistic men can change)

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