Is envy a big threat to the MRM?

hyperlinktoZelda_v2 · 2023-08-05T21:40:29+00:00

When have men ever stood united if not against an enemy faction of men? Yeah envy is probably a huge threat to the MRM.

shit-zen-giggles · 2023-08-05T22:56:28+00:00

That's why I always say:

Issues not labels

I think one of feminism's greatest strategic mistakes was (and is) their fetishization of the term 'feminism' and the related identity 'feminist'. From this came purity spiraling, focusing on 'why wouldn't you call yourself a feminist' rather than the related specific issues. And in no small part it drove the man hating as a 'last resort' cohesive elemt. Afterall what do Sheryl Sandberg and Laura Bates have in common with respect to outlook / view of the world? Practicly nothing, but they can hate join in hating an outgroup defined by genitals (aka men). Aside from that there's a lot of infighting in feminism as well and there always has been. Christina Hoff Sommers talks about how in the 1980s (or 90s) she visited a feminist conference and saw first hand that the groups that formed weren't even stable and that infighting characterized the interactions.

What can the MRM learn from this?

I think we need to acknowledge the reality that different issues affect different demographic subgroups of men and that views/ideas about how to address them (or whether they should be addressed at all) will always be a thing. Thus organising robust yet civil debate and focussing on fixing issues, rather than driving purity and "you belong, you don't" type of discussions is the way forward, I think rather than trying to form an artificial superstructure that is not viable/sustainable.

So, instead of calling yourself an MRA, just say/think/act like

I'm concerned with issues X, Y and Z

and if someone else is concerned with issues X, A and B

cooperate on X as good as you can.

Issues not labels

Vaudeville_Clown · 2023-08-06T11:28:21+00:00

I think men consumed by envy frankly aren't any good for MRM. Sure, they should be listened to on occassion but they aren't exactly valuable members.

Being "high value" and reaping the rewards means conforming to and investing heavily in twisted systems and cultures.

A savvy MRA, even if he's currently socially isolated or struggling financially still wouldn't want to trade places with say... some journo writing social commentary for Washington Post.

Because even if that guy may be well off, has a nice appartement in New York, a moderately large collection of friends and contacts (some of which he fucks on occassion), the dude's still in a mental prison. We see it oozing off of every page he writes, all the invisible lines he's not allowed to cross, and things he's not allowed to say. Not if he wants to keep his privileged fake life, with all the fake people in it.

So Yes, I see envy as a very serious problem for MRM. It leads us wrong, makes us lose sight of structural problems entirely. The unfulfilled envious member may sometimes make an accurate observation or two, but the moment an opportunity arises were he can actually gain some of what he desires, he's going to sign away all critical thought and vocation on the dotted line.

ImOverIt0011 · 2023-08-05T22:49:38+00:00

Imo men's rights won't have a shot until it's taught in schools the same as all the other plights of "victimized oppressed groups" is.

The problem with mens issues is that we tend to look at things more balanced and through other peoples perspective which is less emotional and less rewarding. All movements of the "disadvantaged" are subjective and weave factual observations of reality with emotional/subjective bias in to general descriptions - essentially, they are highly discriminatory but it's seen as ok because they are so adamant in their own victimhood.

To go to that low most men would probably rather die. We are much more likely to take an even and "good enough" stance, and that's not loud enough to overcome the cacophony of screetching mobs all trying to get their way with education systems and government.

Incels get recognition for a few incidents for example, because they are radicals and a significant % are borderline vagina jihadists so of course they get recognition, but men as a group have way too much accountability to go whining in the streets because we understand how high the stakes are in a thing like that, that life is much harder than that and it's childish and ridiculous to complain about every little thing.

If we were more hyper emotional, reactive and louder we'd probably get seminars and sensitivity classes made about us too. Except I don't know who the oppressors would be then since every ideology present in society today is based on oppression by men, the elite, and groups I can't even say because I can get banned for even mentioning LOL. Which is perfectly normal of course.

PlzSendDunes · 2023-08-05T23:23:03+00:00

Asian countries have advanced levels of this. Instead of having results that you expect, they have many men who shut off from society. Again the same men are blamed for everything by the media, but it's not war as you expect. So similar expectation should be in other countries as well. Most men will be picking up hobbies and living either with parents if they make little or small apartments, picking up hobbies and living for themselves because society shuns them. Women will complain about lack of men(not actual lack, but not that so many men make enough money for funding their lifestyles or are amazing in most regards), blame them and will live in small communities surrounded by other women because they are afraid that every man is there to attack them(seen south Korean documentary how many women choose not to create family with man, but instead live to elder years with their friends who are girls).

FlankFlunk · 2023-08-05T21:35:27+00:00

This already exists between the incels the chads and the white knights. This is precisely why a cohesive MRM is so difficult.

FiverIncher · 2023-08-06T18:07:36+00:00

Yes, it is a big threat to men's rights.

Envy leads to resentment.

The top 20% of men have 80% of the money, power, and women.

That leaves the bottom 80% of the men competing over the remaining 20%.

Some of these men realize they just aren't going to be competitive enough to get any money, power, and women so they become extremely resentful.

Society and laws have made it extremely difficult for men to compete to even just get their fair share.

For example, let's say your parents are poor, you don't have a highly valuable skill like software development. What can you really do to get ahead?

People are self-serving, they aren't going to want to connect with you unless it benefits them some how.

Title	Is envy a big threat to the MRM?
Author	Pleasant-Worry-4240
Upvotes	12
Comments	15
Date	August 5, 2023 9:32 PM UTC (2 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/15j7det/is_envy_a_big_threat_to_the_mrm/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/is-envy-a-big-threat-to-the-mrm.1227553 https://theredarchive.com/post/1227553

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Issues not labels

What can the MRM learn from this?

Issues not labels