Saying men have to create their value any different than saying men don't have value.

SayAnts · 2024-02-26T12:07:21+00:00

That's the exact lesson my father taught me. He said "boy, you will find this world holds you worthless unless you have a big wallet, or a big dick. So dont worry what a woman is thinks of you, be you, be rich or poor, but be you. That's what matters"

DarkMage11 · 2024-02-26T12:12:17+00:00

I think thats just the way it is in the world. The value is in what the other sex values.

For example:

For what men want the women are born with value. That is to say purity and fertility. Men want a woman who is not sleeping around and a woman who will bear him children.

For what women want the men must create value. That is to say status and resources. Women want a man who will protect them and provide for them.

Thats why many men will not wife up a women who has slept around alot or is old ( ~90% of her eggs are gone by 30). And many women will not marry a guy who will not protect her and take care of her.

Of course there are exceptions to these rules, But in general this is true.

Thats why women are born with value. They are youthful in their 20s and "pure". Men have to create their value. On one hand I don't like it that men have to create their value while women are born with it, but on the other hand I can understand it from a biological stand.

Just my opinion.

BoomTheBear86 · 2024-02-26T13:54:39+00:00

There is a double standard at play but it’s difficult to unravel and isn’t a case of “how poor men face this evil fact and women enjoy the fruits…”

Both men and women accord women intrinsic value. Women do it through sisterhood and men do it through biology and appreciation for women’s natural faculties.

Both men and women accord men instrumental value. Women do it through vetting prospective partners and men do it through intersexual competition and machismo related posturing. You only need to look at men advice subs to understand this. Men very rarely tell each other to embrace their own self and make peace; it’s all about “levelling up”.

Now, we can say men do this merely because they recognise the societal situation. I don’t think it is that simple though. It’s not merely a “pantomime for the sake the show”, many men genuinely believe guys without material prospects or who want to spend their time more idlely are bums and losers. Men regularly attacking each other where they deviate from the “traditional successful male” script.

So this is a problem that also needs an in house review as it were. Because you’re never going to get wider society and women on board with the idea of men having intrinsic value and dignity if men themselves are still acting like they need to be making X money and having Y sexual partners to be anything of substance and they need to genuinely believe that. Not an easy feat. A significant amount of men genuinely do not believe that men have intrinsic value themselves.

AbysmalDescent · 2024-02-26T15:33:33+00:00

It is the same and that is also why I believe that it's crazy how casually people accept this idea that men must define their value to be considered valuable or to be considered men, but that is unfortunately the culture we live in. If the value that women have to men is innate, when why shouldn't this be addressed or considered as a relevant factors between genders? If the value that women have to men is learned or cultural, then why couldn't women just learn to value men? Why couldn't the culture change to also value men? Why is misandry the norm from women and why is that culturally accepted?

Polite_in_all_caps · 2024-02-26T17:22:11+00:00

It's more complicated than this, but I think you can get a pretty good approximation of how society values men and women with the basic slope formula.

Y=mx+b'

Social Value = 'Value Acknowledgement' times 'Value Achieved' plus 'Intrinsic Value'

Men get a full Value Acknowledgement for their 'Value Achieved', but get no basic Intrinsic Value, which comes with a warping effect on empathy where if you aren't contributing, you're disposable.

Women get a reduced Value Acknowledgement for their achievements, regardless if people here want to pretend that the feminist push has eradicated this, and it causes women friction in their day to day life. But there is a bottom line intrinsic valuation that helps build the widespread sorority, and makes it easy for strangers to join together and empathize for women, even if they don't know them, and that is the part that I find gets abused/is a women's privileged position.

So I try to remember that there is compensation. I don't think it's adequate for men. But I don't think it's adequate in either direction, and we need to keep working to treat all people better. Including personally working to find and shore up the intrinsic value of the men around us, regardless if it feels strange or uncomfortable.

LazyQuiet6019 · 2024-02-27T00:23:52+00:00

Western world dont see men as humans

abramN · 2024-02-27T00:58:02+00:00

This is all predicated on the assumption that people need to do something to participate in our society. Hermits don't care as much, or at all, in generating value for other people. If you want to participate in this society, you need to provide some kind of value. Women DO have it easy in that sense, somewhat, as they are desired for certain traits right off the bat. Some women rely on that entirely, like some folks rely on social security in retirement. But us men don't have the SAME advantage as women, and I say that's a good thing - it gives us men an opportunity to really be introspective and think about how we are providing value to society.

proteios1 · 2024-02-27T20:23:30+00:00

I see no problem with men defining themselves by their accomplishments. But to convolute the false idea that there is otherwise no inherent value by simply being a human and a male is nonsense.

Title	Saying men have to create their value any different than saying men don't have value.
Author	Plus-Pollution-5916
Upvotes	114
Comments	19
Date	February 26, 2024 11:49 AM UTC (2 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/1b0fmkq/saying_men_have_to_create_their_value_any/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/saying-men-have-to-create-their-value-any.1246470 https://theredarchive.com/post/1246470

Comments