A seeming contradiction - if 90% of communication is non-verbal, then why optimize for interesting conversation?

Brannus · 2013-02-11T01:34:45+00:00

If you are not congruent with what you are saying, then what you are saying becomes, basically, meaningless to someone else.

I don't think you can emphasize one form of communication over the other. It's the whole package that makes you interesting to other people. No matter what you say, if you are looking at your watch, have your drink in front of your chest, and your tone is flat, you are not going to convey to someone that you are someone who is listening (which in my opinion is very key to create rapport between people).

Overall the 90% rule is more specifically meant to be applied to when someone is communicating emotions and attitudes.

phro · 2013-02-11T02:29:32+00:00

Because the stat doesn't apply the way you're using it. It is referring to the communication you have with the people that you don't have a dialogue with. You walk down the street and make eye contact you're communicating. You dress a certain way you're communicating. You may have a conversation with 1 person in a bar but at the same time you're communicating with everyone else based on your posture, your tone, your volume, etc. Of that 90% only a small portion of it is ever verbalized or even directed at a single target.

2013-02-11T03:26:52+00:00

Most people misunderstand nonverbal.

It means the words you say. It doesn't mean the act of you saying the word. Syntax, tone, inflection, volume, accent, drawing out/shortening words, all of these fit in with nonverbal communication of your body language, facial expressions, etc.

An interesting conversation is either purely about the topic or it's not, and when it's not (it almost always is this), it's about facilitating a bond between two people.

The #1 purpose of giving interesting conversation is to show that person that you're interesting and that your conversations are interesting. Conversely, the #1 purpose of interesting conversation for the self is figuring out, what, if anything, you value about the person you're talking to.

If you carry on a really interesting conversation with someone, their memory is never "the words they chose were good. the rest wasn't important." They either say you are interesting or that both of you had an interesting conversation.

of course i'm generalizing, but yeah. This just seems like an attempt to nitpick and divert frustrations from the self to what seems like a less than perfect system. If you really wanted to discuss and dissect the idea of most of your communication being nonverbal objectively, you'd at least spend a few minutes figuring out what nonverbal actually means before you attempted to critically evaluate it.

FittersGuy · 2013-02-11T03:06:16+00:00

Because you need something to talk about. You can't have communication without using words. Well, you can, but it's a lot more difficult. Interesting topics bring out more in your non-verbal communication than a boring topic would.

I can make a girl laugh by telling her what cereal I had in the morning; just by using the right words and the right way of saying it.

counttess · 2013-02-11T04:00:13+00:00

Because if you are confident in what you're talking about, the rest of your body language will show it too.

TheCuriousDude · 2013-02-11T05:31:56+00:00

I'd argue that since confidence and body language are so important, optimizing for interesting conversation isn't really that important. That's not to say that you shouldn't be interesting. Rather, if you have an unbreakable frame, it doesn't matter what you say for the most part, so long as you say it with confidence.

shitsfuckedupalot · 2013-02-11T05:45:20+00:00

Well I think with my story telling I can make anything sound interesting. That's why i just say whatever come out of the top of my head

iDandy · 2013-02-11T06:04:39+00:00

Idk man the deeper I go the more crazy shit I see the more I understand how insanely much nonverbal stuff matters. Like sometimes It almost blows my fucking mind how much we communicate without words.

verxix · 2013-02-11T06:07:34+00:00

I'm not sure how communication can be quantified in a way that isn't biased for either kind of communication (verbal or non-verbal).

olivedoesntrhyme · 2013-02-11T11:58:12+00:00

I'm 90% sure the 90% figure is just made up, similar to how I just put a random high percentage on my conviction that it is. I was somewhat irritated by it when I first heard it because it's a good example of how pick up often sounds very pseudo science-y if you don't take it with a grain of salt. then i realised that its just an indicative number, like everything else in seduction, and it's meant to be more of a reminder than a concrete rule or law. Like 2/3 of the times it accounts for 90% of communication.

troyfawkes · 2013-02-11T15:41:34+00:00

When I speak on the phone 100% of my communication is verbal. Pauses count, speed, volume, emotion, content, focus, all of that. In the end, though, this is how it works:

Idea -> Communication -> Recipient.

If the idea is shit, it doesn't matter how good of a communicator you are :)

I wrote a starter guide on improving conversation skills a couple days ago if it interests anyone. I like the topic so I'll probably keep it up and make it FAQ-like, so if anyone has thoughts let me know.

2013-02-11T16:37:37+00:00

So cool to see this post because I feel like I had this breakthrough in the last week.

My verbal game is and was super tight. I even had a lot of the delivery down: tonality, eye contact, body language. When I added an increased focus on physicality though, my game skyrocketed

Because of the format of the FR (I said, she said) we get so caught up in the verbal. I think you are 100% right though, there is a MAJOR physical component that is missing from most game discussions and it makes them deceptive and incomplete. Describing eye contact, and side hugs, and waist squeezes is tough though. So they get left out.

I just threw another link up describing how this relates to kissing a girl. If that is a sticking point for you, definitely check it out. At the very least go be waaaay more touchy, because that is a major part of seduction.

Praxiss · 2013-02-11T02:14:20+00:00

Flawed premise, interesting stories or optimizing the conversation is not actually important at all.

ThrowawayPUA · 2013-02-11T01:15:53+00:00

Because the other 10% is important too.

uututhrwa · 2013-02-11T03:29:53+00:00

I don't think most girls really care about "interesting conversations", at least those looking for short term relationships. I've seen some high level guys flirting and the conversation was like, lacking, some shit about their cars that could happen to anyone, zero personality stuff about what the drinks are like are you having fun should we go to club X which is even more expensive, and stuff like that, they would mostly rely on physical appearance, how "smooth" they look, they'd advertise their social status, and possibly it would be up to if they can get suggestive while dancing without looking awkward. Meanwhile if you couldn't carry yourself right you could say the exact same things and the girl would just sneer at you acting bored, I mean it might be even more than 90% non verbal.

In fact unless she has a thing or an ego for being herself intelligent, talking too much will get things awkward fast.

edit: Unless you are talking about dating, yeah you must have something to say then, but before you get there you generally have to act like a smooth non argumentative person with social skills

Title	A seeming contradiction - if 90% of communication is non-verbal, then why optimize for interesting conversation?
Author	[deleted]
Upvotes	21
Comments	20
Date	February 11, 2013 12:55 AM UTC (13 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/seduction
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/seduction/comments/18a0tc/a_seeming_contradiction_if_90_of_communication_is/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/seduction/a-seeming-contradiction-if-90-of-communication-is.1347267 https://theredarchive.com/post/1347267

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