Boys aren't going to the manosphere or red pill content because they necessarily like what's being said. They feel it's the only place they are authorized to be. And current feminist discourse isn't helping.

YetAgain67 · 2024-09-30T14:13:06+00:00

Feminists think young men are literally waking up and choosing misogyny out of their sheer inherent male privilege. Like, they genuinely just chock it up to a self centered childish overreaction to their "privilege" being challenged.

Those who deign to even voice the fact men are suffering still just end up at: "well, still your fault because of original sin so...suck it up buttercup."

And they wonder why the left lost ground with men...

Gee, couldn't be the constant and aggressive messaging for decades that they're inherently broken people based on their immutable characteristics, could it!?

jpla86 · 2024-09-30T23:43:04+00:00

And it's funny that these (mostly female and leftist) journalists are writing articles about this mystery of why young men are moving towards the right. I mean, are these people journalists? Do they not know how to do research? If they want to know the reason, all they have to do is go on social media and see all of the constant, unchecked male-bashing that goes on. You can say you don't give a shit about male suicide and get half a million likes. The whole bear nonsense, downplaying male issues, etc.

But like women, the left never does any kind of self-reflection and rethink their strategy on how to reach out to men. They just see men and boys as defective, irredeemable human beings that are wired from birth to rape, assault and oppress women. Then they wonder why young men are saying fuck the left.

SpicyMarshmellow · 2024-10-01T18:21:58+00:00

I really don't care in the slightest about masculine identity. I think masculinity and femininity are flawed concepts. I'm a "just be a person" type. I identify as male, but have zero concern for whether any aspect of myself aligns with a masculine presentation or role. So I don't relate to your message in general.

I never would have given a shred of attention to "manosphere" content, except for the feminist left's horrendously toxic attitude towards male victims of abuse. I was trapped in an abusive relationship for many years, out of fear of leaving my kids alone with an abusive mother. I don't think there is anyone in the world that the feminist left hates more than someone like me, who challenges their male perpetrator/female victim narrative. They will weakly pretend otherwise, but I think they hate me more than they hate the likes of Andrew Tate.

I have faced vitriol simply for pointing out when their rhetoric about men just as easily describes a man being a victim of abuse as it does a man being incompetent or toxic. For example, writing about men relying on their female partners to organize their social lives for them as an example how men toxically impose emotional labor instead of putting in effort to develop their own life skills... when that can just as easily be explained as an abuser controlling their victim's social life. Training each other to perceive possible evidence of being abused as instead evidence of being a toxic piece of shit, if the subject is male. I point out how this narrative describes me 5 years ago, and how if they met me back then while buying into this rhetoric, they would have got me wrong... and get yelled at.

AT BEST, a man like me cannot exist in their spaces without being regarded with suspicion, because they perceive me through a combination of beliefs that I'm an extreme statistical outlier, combined with talk of male victims being exaggerated and wielded by MRAs as a dishonest means of discrediting feminism, which amounts to suspicion that it's more likely I'm making my story up in order to invade their space as some kind of sleeper agent.

But I'm honestly seeing it expressed by them more commonly these days that a man claiming to have been abused is actually outing themselves as an abuser, on the logic that if abusers engage in DARVO and men are the statistical majority of abusers, then it's a safe assumption that a man making that claim is just engaging in DARVO and outing themselves by saying anything. They will repeat over and over that feminism is for men too because it allows men to be victims while the patriarchy doesn't.... but they will only ever promote that in theory. They are incapable of allowing male victims to exist in reality, and will twist themselves in knots to justify erasing real men who have been abused from existence. Not all feminists do this, but I have not found a feminist space where this will not be guaranteed to happen and go unchallenged.

I hate the likes of Andrew Tate or Fresh & Fit. They're pieces of shit. But aside from that bottom of the barrel of actual walking cartoon caricatures of toxic masculinity, manosphere types will at least actually acknowledge me and allow me to exist. I've been radically left and considered myself a feminist since the mid-90's. After the dramatic turn towards rabid man-hatred took over leftist spaces in the late 2010's, simply being acknowledged and allowed to exist felt like lifting a truck off my shoulders.

So yeah, I agree with your basic statement, but for different reasons.

anaIconda69 · 2024-09-30T10:03:07+00:00

What red pill is great at, and we aren't (I'm sorry but it's true) is rhetoric.

Our ideas are necessarily complicated, because our whole point is injecting nuance into feminism, and we keep steelmanning it so we don't end up as a hate movement. We're reactive to feminism. And most people don't give a shit about nuance.

In contrast, Red Pill isn't even a social movement in the sense that it makes people come together and change the world, it's narcisstic in nature. It spreads socially, because red pillers share language, beliefs and methods in their online communities, but out in the real world they compete with one another. 0 responsibility, easy to digest, very ego affirming. But it's also a weakness.

I'm positive that advocacy inside red pill communities is worthwhile precisely because most red pillers are a step away from waking up and understanding their position in the world.

IntroductionOk7954 · 2025-01-25T21:24:21+00:00

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kyzfrintin · 2025-05-20T11:49:15+00:00

While I agree in general that the left is lacking when it comes to appealing to men specifically in regards to positive masculinity, I don't accept the idea that feminism is in any large way man hating, or that masculinity is itself seen as a negative thing.

In fact, I see many feminists talking quite freely about the struggles men face, and putting forward positive visions of masculinity: honesty, empathy, strength of character and protecting those you love. And this isn't new - feminists have been talking about this for a long time.

I feel that this messaging you're putting forward is in no small part influenced by the red pill narrative. You can't fight red pill while eating its propaganda. And the idea that feminism is wholly or even largely about "hating men" is, sorry to say this, nothing more than anti feminist propaganda, intended to steer men away from ideas that would actually help them (challenging patriarchy), and toward those that would poison them with hate (red pill).

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