"The phrase “women and children” is demeaning to everyone. It equates women to children and promotes them as helpless and de-intellectualizes them. It makes men sound like they matter more (or less, depending on context) than other sexes. It omits NB people from existing. Leave it in the past."

KPplumbingBob · 2026-04-10T09:06:27+00:00

To be honest the idea that it makes men sound like they matter more is infuriating. Just how does anyone come to that conclusion? The notion that we should be satisfied just because they acknowledged it could mean male lives matter less is ridiculous, when it’s clear as day that it’s simply male disposability on display. Even the women angle. Sure, you could say it does infantilize women but at the same time they fail to mention that female lives are simply valued more. That's the primary thing it does. It makes the lives of women more important. This even comes up when you bring up the issue of conscription so why not just say that outright?

Hot-Celebration-1524 · 2026-04-10T09:17:13+00:00

My understanding is that male disposability grew out of small-scale societies where men were expected to fight and hunt and were therefore most often exposed to danger. Throw in the development of culture and you get the expectation that men take risks. Fast forward to medieval Europe and those guys decided to formalize the whole thing through chivalry, where a “real man” wasn’t just someone who faced danger but someone who would place himself in harm’s way voluntarily.

To add some context, in the early Middle Ages “knights” were basically armed thugs, which left the Church and the aristocracy with the problem of how do you stop these guys from killing you? Their solution was chivalry. They started granting status to “honorable” men who used violence to protect the weak and accepted a duty to defend their lord, their land, and the Church. Christian stories helped spread this notion of male sacrifice, e.g. shepherds protecting flocks, saints accepting martyrdom, and ultimately Christ sacrificing himself for everyone.

Give it a little time to set and here we are, modern society running on the pretty much the same system of honor and sacrifice. You can see it in who gets sent to fight wars and who takes the most dangerous jobs. And you can see it in evacuation norms like “women and children first.” What’s interesting is that nobody has to preach chivalry anymore because it’s internalized. So a man who fails to perform his “duty” can feel shame even when nobody is judging.

blackmamba4554 · 2026-04-10T15:58:36+00:00

Ahah, feminists just don't use "women and children" when it suits to proclaim they are strong and independent.

In case of any Titanic (Ukraine, for instance) they are fragile and need special support. Or cis women are also fragile when it is necessary to implement even more censorship (a new brand BS "digital violence")/

It is already "women and girls" according to UN Women, where homophobes and transphobes, such as Reem Alsalem, occupy prominent posts.

Hall_Effekt · 2026-04-10T07:41:17+00:00

Maybe take the example of the sinking of the Titanic:

During the evacuation, on one side of the ship the leading officer did not allow men and boys (!) to enter the boats, even if this meant having half-filled or quarter-filled boats.

The idea is that a woman is some kind of good for society, and a man's value is, on the other hand, in sacrificing himself for society. It’s a really old tribalistic idea. The men fight and compete for the control over women. And as part of it, a man must be able to sacrifice himself. Because the tribe can repopulate even if three quarters of the men died, but not if three quarters of the women died.

There was not a single drowning person rescued by the people on the boats, because they were taught helplessness. But it was expected for men and boys to sink with the ship.

I think the role models behind it are: women as caregivers, men as auxiliary.

You can see this in Western societies when women do more care work. And men, on the other hand, are evaluated for their job, body, and social connections in competition to other men.

My guess is that in tribal societies, women’s and men’s spaces were often separated, and girls were taught to be nurturing while boys were taught to compete.

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PastDifficulty7 · 2026-04-10T13:54:14+00:00

100%

Dark_Prince_of_Chaos · 2026-04-12T12:25:26+00:00

Maybe it's because many women act like children.

Mirality- · 2026-04-11T02:42:07+00:00

Since i was a kid i always hated that phrase. Unless you're in a birth rate crisis it makes no sense to save ADULT WOMEN alongside children first

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