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Thunderf0ot and men lynching.

supermoore83

December 25, 2014

171 upvotes

/r/MensRights

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Post Information

Title	Thunderf0ot and men lynching.
Author	supermoore83
Upvotes	171
Comments	44
Date	December 25, 2014 7:24 PM UTC (11 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/mensrights/comments/2qdtl4/thunderf0ot-and-men-lynching/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/thunderf0ot-and-men-lynching.1624236 https://theredarchive.com/post/1624236

Comments

[–][deleted]42 points 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

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[–]t0talnonsense-9 points 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Arakin10 points 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]t0talnonsense-4 points 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Arakin7 points 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

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[–]Arakin10 points 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]t0talnonsense-1 point 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

You think it's people who say things like the quote here that's stopping people from listening to reason?

Sole reason? No. Primary reason? No. Supplementary reason? Absolutely, and especially because it's petty. The very nature of feminism (feminism means whatever you want it to mean) allows the average, everyday, looks at an article or two before forming their opinion, may identify as a feminist. In fact, a lot of them do. When crap like this is encouraged, it alienates those reasonable people who may come to our side. They may agree with any of the points you raised above, but disagree with MRA's specifically because of the attitudes that permeate this sub.

Potential allies are discouraged from joining the MRM, because MRA's spend so much time harping on "feminism," rather than the specific brand of feminism that is anti-male. I know plenty of people who identify as a feminist, because they believe that it means equal rights. They also talk shit about the crazy stuff that some people do in the name of feminism, and they also agree with any or all of the points you raised above. Guess what though, they dislike MRA's because of how angry and petty people are on this and other MRM focused forums. Too many people are acting like petulant children who would rather throw mud at the other side than grown adults who want to come to the table and have a conversation. Feminism in this sub is a four letter word, which is incredibly damaging for MRA's directly, and transitively the MRM.

[–]Arakin3 points 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]t0talnonsense-1 point 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Potential allies who are dis-swayed by someone generalizing that Feminism sucks and Feminists are assholes, are never going to be 'allies.'

That's not what gets said around here though. I can't tell you how many times I see actual, hateful, language about feminism as a blanket statement, because people would rather lump every single form or aspect of feminism under one label, rather than take the 5 seconds to specify exactly what part of feminism they despise (as you just did).

I agree with your statement, as quoted, but that's not the kind of language that I think is harmful. I think equating feminism (as a whole) with racism is harmful. I think saying "fuck feminists" is harmful. I think saying "Feminism is a hate group" is harmful. Jesus. That last one specifically. When the normal person hears that MRA's think feminists are a hate group, they immediately think of neo-nazi's and the KKK. And then they think that MRA's are crazy, because they think about the general notion of gender equity that is (sadly) becoming synonymous with feminism. That's the kind of shit that needs to be actively spoken out against, just like we want feminists to actively speak out against the hateful speech within their own movement.

[–]Arakin1 point 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]t0talnonsense0 points 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

This is where you lose me. I've seen first hand how my wife has received some absolutely abhorrent behavior from men on the street or in a bar. I've seen men in tech fields or in video games or traditionally "geeky guy things" to be questioned and have to prove themselves over and over again, where a man doesn't. Shit. I know I've caught myself doing it sometimes, because I was raised believing that crap. I don't think that there are any rights that women lack now, but I think there is still a dismissive and subservient attitude that some express against women. There is still some social systemic sexism against women in the West, and I think it's disingenuous to say there isn't. It's also disingenuous for them to say that there isn't systemic sexism against men as well.

At this point in the west, the majority of gender movements for both men and women come down to social attitudes and expectations rather than concrete rights. The same holds true for racial issues in the West as well, and most every other "issue" I can think of. At this point, the majority of issues in 1st world countries come down to attitudes and expectations, rather than a legal right (like voting) that is denied to one group or another, and I don't think there's anything wrong with organizing to change those attitudes.

[–]Arakin1 point 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]ladut0 points 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

exactly why FEMINISM doesn't need to exist, just like MANISM doesn't need to exist.

Sorry, I've been following this convo, and I had to pipe in here. I don't quite follow the logic, how does the fact that, "both genders face their own issues," somehow negate the usefulness of advocacy groups? Because that's what feminism boils down to when you remove the extremists and the bullshit statistics. Sexism still exists (I'm in the Army, and oh god is it still an issue), even if you believe men's issues to be more grievous; so there's still a place for feminism, even if it's no longer as pertinent as it was in previous decades.

Not only that, but your blanket statement blatantly ignores some minority populations in the US, where real gender inequality is still a cultural feature. Women are nothing but sex objects in large portions of the black community, some Hispanic cultures are totally cool with beating/mistreating their women, and we can't forget that some Muslim women do not in fact want to wear the hijab, but are forced to by fathers/husbands.

Frankly, I think it's ignorant to say gender advocacy groups don't need to exist. Ignorant to the heterogeneity of the population, and ignorant of the fact that we live in a world in which feminism is still a necessary ideology in certain developing countries (and as such, cannot completely remove feminism from a country that is a conglomeration of world cultures like the US).

[–]Arakin2 points 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]ladut1 point 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Focusing on a particular issue or the concerns of a group of people does not imply that other related issues are not relevant/important.

It's folly to expect someone who has an interest in a particular subject to become equally as active in all related subjects for fear of belittling another. If I'm interested in testicular cancer research because it has personally affected me, it would be pretty fucked up for someone to say, "Well other cancers exist too. By focusing on testicular cancer, you're negating the cancers that others have. That's cancerist."

I can be interested in the mistreatment of women in the Indian community (which I am), call myself a feminist, and still be interested in men's legal issues, and call myself a men's issues advocate. Being a feminist or MRA and an egalitarian are not mutually exclusive, some people just have a stronger interest in issues that personally affect them, and that's to be expected.

Also, for the record, I used the 3rd world example to illustrate that the concept of feminism will not be going away anytime soon, and being a part of the global community means there will be crossover. I think your crusade to make the concept of feminism irrelevant is folly; you can't kill an idea, that's unrealistic.

[–]Arakin1 point 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

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[–]EndlessTosser3 points 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Yeah, no hatred or demonization, just that women are men's moral superiors and that by allowing them the vote, women would single-handedly remove corruption and restore the democratic process to where it rightfully belonged.

There was also the little issue of the Seneca Falls conference where rich, bored white women tasked themselves with trying to free the slaves while still not giving them the right to vote, and in fact were unable to decide if they wanted to take the risk of having the conscription that came hand-in-hand with voting at the time.

There's a reason that the 15th amendment abolishing slaves and endowing them with the right to vote didn't also include women: they didn't want to have to do something similar to the draft.

But yeah, no preaching of hatred, violence, or hostility, just a campaign of moral superiority and fear of the equal responsibility that comes with having the equal rights.

The overt and blatant hatred and disgust came later.

[–]t0talnonsense-1 point 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Calm down, and reread what I said. I said, hatred, hostility, or violence. Harm is not part of that definition. A group can advocate for policies that harm another group without being considered a hate group.

Let's look at a non-gendered example. Group A advocates for contracting through a national company to provide the food for a school system. Currently, the school system gets all of their food from local farmers. In this instance, is Group A a hate group, because the policies they advocate are harmful to the local farmers and possibly the local economy? NO. This is exactly why perpetuating false statistics or harmful policies do not make something a hate group, because there is almost always something, someone, or some group that will be harmed by any policy that is implemented or fudged/falsified statistics that are trumped out.

[–]ENTP2 points 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]lethatis11 points 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link