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FR - Realizations and Internalization

Reddit View
September 16, 2017
9 upvotes

I will keep this short and to the point. This is meant to be a practical example to fellow new guys as to what internalization really is (I wondered at first too, now I'm seeing it)

Backstory: Wife went to make up store a few months ago (I waited in the car to do some reading). Comes put and tells me how much she spent. Mentioned a card, I asked if she got another credit card. "No, it's just a rewards card." We drive home.

This morning: An open credit card statement from make up store is laying on the table. Caught in a lie.

How I handled it: I thought about ignoring it. She is finacially responsible, no worries that it, along with her other bills will get paid. I did not like the fact she lied, however. I decided to address it, calm but firm. Not butthurt, accusingly, or ramboishly. At first she says she did get it that day and didn't tell me bc she didn't want me to flip out. I responded with nothing more than "I don't want you to lie to me, just tell me the truth next time." Again calm & firm.

Her attitude shifted to defense mode and she gets a little aggitated. Few minutes later "Actually, I got the card when I went back to make a return and new purchase." I knew this was a lie. BUT, you don't have to engage! I called her out on her bullshit ("I was with you when you made the return, I know you didnt spend $statement amount that day."), but went RIGHT back to "I just don't want you lie to me."

Realization: Will she lie to me again, whether big or small? Probably. Can I stop her from doing it? Absolutely not. Is it worth wasting my day to jump into her frame, retort every excuse she gives with facts or more questions and so on....No. Do I have to continue talking about it if she brings it up when she gets home? No. And most importantly, do I even feel the need to talk to her about it anymore? No.

This is what internalization, or at least an early onset, "is". There was no question on how to handle the situation or myself. There was no "am I handling this right" or "remember what you've read" internal dialog. All I can do is tell her I dont want her to lie to me. The rest is on her. No ultimatums. No wasted day fighting. No anger or resentment.

All there is is just a realistic view of what happend, and an understanding that it will probably happen again. And I will be just fine when and if it does.


Post Information
Title FR - Realizations and Internalization
Author rocketskates4209576
Upvotes 9
Comments 17
Date 16 September 2017 04:37 PM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit askMRP
Link https://theredarchive.com/post/205449
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/askMRP/comments/70hv28/fr_realizations_and_internalization/
Similar Posts

Red Pill terms found in post:
butthurtframe
Comments

[–]drty_prRed Beret4 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy

My qurstion is, how have you set a boundary and subsequent consequence for another transgression of similar nature?

I know you practiced stoicism and framed the exchange around your desires, but how do you know she doesn't do this again or lie about some other bullshit? What do you do if she does? Is she aware of the consequence or that there will be a consequence? Will you fillow through with the same frame you approached this issue with?

[–]rocketskates4209576[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy

how do you know she doesn't do this again or lie about some other bullshit?

I don't. I assume she will at some point though.

What do you do if she does?

If it happend today, I would say very little about it and withdraw time and attention, possibly leave the house altogether. Down the road, I dont know yet.

Is she aware of the consequence

No.

...or that there will be a consequence?

Yes.

Will you fillow through with the same frame you approached this issue with?

I'd like to think so.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

This is it gentleman. No reservations bare bones "this is what I'll accept in my life". Doesnt matter how wife feels, doesnt matter if it was a mistake or on purpose. You know what happened next? Wet panties. "Wow. My man has a boundary." You know what's next next? "Time to test that boundary."

OP take heed of the other commenters and take control of the finances.

[–]BobbyPeru2 points3 points  (3 children) | Copy

That's cool you maintained frame, but long term you need to keep an eye on this kind of stuff. It can spiral into hundreds of thousands of $. Trust me, it happened to me, and where there's smoke, there's fire. In my case, I uncovered a fucking inferno.

But, people are right saying you did the right thing for now and didn't blow it out of proportion. But, keep an eye on it loosely. I may be going against the grain a little here, but I've experience it first hand. Some little lies and deceptions turned into a huge problem. But, there are tools like credit karma where you can regularly check open credit lines among other stuff.

[–]hystericalbonding2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

But, there are tools like credit karma

I hear Equifax does that sort of thing...

[–]BobbyPeru1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Credit karma will show any new reports on equifax and the other big ones

[–]SteelSharpensSteelMod / Red Beret0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

If you go that route, you might want to freeze your credit, and possibly hers.

Heck, you might want to do that anyway with the Equifax breach.

[–]hystericalbonding2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Assertiveness and stoicism are like magic for cutting through bullshit without escalating into a stressful and unproductive confrontation. When people recognize that you can handle shit, they'll be more willing to open up. She'll lie again - everybody does, but it will probably happen less often if you are consistently unfazed while maintaining boundaries. Well done.

[–]InChargeManRed Beret0 points1 point  (8 children) | Copy

Fuck that shit. You are married, opening credit lines affects you. Lying about it makes it worse. I would make her return the shit she bought (or sell some other stupid shit she has wasted money on) to recover the cost, then cancel the card.

[–]hystericalbonding5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy

That's precisely the kind of over-reaction his wife was expecting. He doesn't have the frame for that kind of response.

Staying calm while stating a boundary like this is a major shift in relationship dynamics for OP. He's just getting started on his journey.

[–]SgtSilverBack0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy

His boundaries are about the lying. He seems to have a grasp on how he feels his family finances are run and to what degree he let's his wife control her finances.

My point being, while we throw around finances as owning your shit, we also place a heavier emphasis on YOUR vision. If his vision is less anal about finances then that is his decision.

OP, did you say the second part about being with her during the return or was that what you were thinking but answered with don't lie to me?

While I think you did okay in stating your values about honesty, what are you going to do if she lies again? Plan it now, in phases, or to whatever degree lying is a priority to you. Don't leave it up to an emotional response if/when it happens again.

[–]rocketskates4209576[S] 0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy

OP, did you say the second part about being with her during the return or was that what you were thinking but answered with don't lie to me?

Yeah I said it. She tried responding to it I think, but I cut her off with "just don't lie to me."

The plan now if it were to happen is just withdrawn time/attention in one way or another, after saying something of course.

[–]SgtSilverBack0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

Then next time cut out parts that turn it into a chance for her to hamster, like I was with you during the return. That fact is it doesn't matter and it's not any tactical advantage. It may be a larger strategy to show her you pay attention, but I doubt it will actually help.

I'd listen to u/dirtypr and keep an eye on charges just in case. And the next time focus on the issue being her lying. Possibly with some vision about how you see an honest marriage benefiting you both so she can see she has no reason to lie. Give her a positive to look for.

I'm not going to speculate on why she got the credit line, but if she feels she can't be honest with you because of past reactions by you then it may help her to see that you have a vision that will help and she may share concerns about why she did it which will also give you a chance to lead her to a better option.

[–]rocketskates4209576[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

good points! The only reason I said anything about being with her then was to call her out on her bullshit. It was another lie to try to cover up the first one, and I won't meet that with silence.

Possibly with some vision about how you see an honest marriage benefiting you both so she can see she has no reason to lie. Give her a positive to look for. I'm not going to speculate on why she got the credit line, but if she feels she can't be honest with you because of past reactions by you then it may help her to see that you have a vision that will help and she may share concerns about why she did it which will also give you a chance to lead her to a better option.

This is great advice, will definitelt use it in all future situations it applies!

[–]InChargeManRed Beret0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Then next time cut out parts that turn it into a chance for her to hamster, like I was with you during the return. That fact is it doesn't matter and it's not any tactical advantage. It may be a larger strategy to show her you pay attention, but I doubt it will actually help.

I tell my kids "I know everything that goes on around me. If you get away with something, I still knew, I just didn't feel like bringing it up." I like my wife to have the same impression.

Taking this into consideration but also to your point. I like to "hold back" evidence of how I know things or when I learn something. Or sometimes I'll go the other way and use something she thinks is secret to fuck with her, making her go through hoops to try to conceal it more, then eventually showing that I knew all along and she's a silly girl :)

To be clear though, not on important shit, just stupid little things.

[–]rocketskates4209576[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

It's not gonna hurt us. Bills are paid, we have a fucking blast together as a family every weekend, dinner on the table, and all the lumber/drywall ect for my remodel projects. The money is a non-issue here.

[–]InChargeManRed Beret1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Ok, I guess as long as you know where your boundaries are, who am I to judge?

For me, lying about opening credit lines would be pretty far on the NOPE side of the pendulum.



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