Betas, med school in America, and "The Drama of the Gifted Child"

svogliate · 2014-12-03T09:19:11+00:00

I'm familiar with Alice Miller. She's an extremely important author.

The Asian family has a narcissistic personality structure. It is structured on the narcissistic wishes of the parents. Nothing else matters to them. The Asian child subordinates his thoughts, feelings, and wishes to the materialistic desires (read: bourgeois greed) of the parents; he learns to deaden his true and spontaneous desires and feelings and he becomes "a performer" putting on "an act" -- this act is "success" or "destined for success"

Asian parents inculcate a baseline of low self-worth in their children. They also teach their children that they need to "perform" in order to have their needs met; if the child does not perform, his needs aren't met. If he does perform, he does have his needs met. HOWEVER, the child is damned if he does, damned if he doesn't; if he doesn't perform he is worthless, but if he performs adequately, then the parents celebrate the performance and not him, and he is still worthless. The child continues to deaden his feelings and prioritize his "act" well into his adulthood and, with much difficulty, endurance, and effort, eventually becomes a "successful performer" - who still has the same old deadened feelings and unmet needs from childhood.

Now the "successful" Asian man sees a woman. He still has his childhood feelings of low self-worth and thinks, "I am down here, and she is up there, and I need to perform in order to make up for this gap between us." He performs, and when she ignores him, he performs some more, and more, and more, just like in childhood, always creating new invisible hoops in his head that he needs to jump through in order to be loved (an expensive watch, a Benz, expensive clothes, huge pectorals, a high-rise condo, "game." "Red Pill Knowledge," etc) then jumping through them, while she still stands over there uninterested.

In reality, existentially, the guy and the girl are on the same level; the imagined gap between the two is all in his head and he doesn't need to perform one bit.

PlusGoody · 2014-12-03T04:11:31+00:00

Smart, successful guys having ugly girlfriends / wives is a thing you shouldn't get worked up about.

Some of them are total betas and were intimidated / psyched themselves into less than they could have gotten if they waited a couple more years for their SMV to rise. They made their bargain, and their women are often savvy and interesting (they bought the stock cheap knowing it would rise).

Some of them have weird-ass madonna-whore or "I must marry another Jew / Hindu / etc." complexes and love hot girls but made themselves marry an ugly girl who fit other criteria. It's an honorable choice for that value system.

Some of them dated / fucked any number of hot women when younger and just got bored with it. These ugly girls they marry are often totally cool in other ways; get to know them if you can.

BadgerBurger · 2014-12-03T14:19:02+00:00

Incredibly smart people can feel ostracized when growing up. It's common for gifted kids to feel like they don't fit in with everyone else. All through their formative years, the traits which make them great later in life make them awkward nerds in school. It gets a little better in college, but even at the most elite schools, the jocks and alpha rich kids dominate the social scene.

Then comes med school. Suddenly the nerd "beta" kids are now highly-esteemed soon-to-be doctors. Women's view of them has now shifted immensely. But by this point, it may be too hard to adjust. It's kind of like when a poor person wins the lottery -- previous bad habits carry over, because they don't know how to live like they're rich. Similarly, these soon-to-be doctors don't know how to live like they're alpha.

[deleted] · 2014-12-03T12:03:40+00:00

How do you become a doctor? By following rules: you stay away from aggressive sports (don't want to damage those surgeon fingers), you study rather than party, and you obsess over your GPA. By following rules you are rewarded; by trying to be different you are punished.

You don't want your doctor to experiment, you want him to follow the exact recommened procedure. If you're having heart surgery, you want to hear that your surgeon has done the same proceedure a hundred times, not that he likes to think for himself and improvise like a jazz musician.

Also, most doctors invest a lot in their ego. They are rightly proud of their accomplishments. We all know how painful it can be to take the red pill, think about how much more painful it must be for someone whose whole identity is based around always being correct and never questioning accepted practice.

And then you have society telling doctors to take the blue pill. Of course they are going to do this. For this reason be skeptical of any advice you get from a medically trained psychitrist.

robertpaulsontitties · 2014-12-03T15:44:13+00:00

I haven't read the book but found this line interesting:

some mothers (or other caregivers) kill off self-determination and initiative in the child and causes long term repression of aspects of the self in the child

I think it is harmful to give children IQ tests or at least the scores should only be made available to parents and administrators because it can lock the child into a certain way of thinking about themselves and also locks them into specific life paths. I also think that it can be harmful to overemphasize studying and grades in K12 education and this will lead to a less well rounded and socially competent person.

Rosglue · 2014-12-03T20:46:12+00:00

Haha, as an Asian American whose parents weren't helicopter parents its interesting to see both sides to it. By all accounts they should have been(both vietnamese war refugees, came knowing no english at all, but ended up as a software engineer/accountant). They wanted me to be successful(good grades and whatnot) , but they didn't care what grades I got as long as I worked hard. My mom would get more mad about a B in bio rather than a C in physics because she knows I was just slacking off.

I did struggle a bit with having low self confidence/trying to please other people, but once I hit college I realized if you just relax everything else comes easy, and it did! I might still be a "beta" but I'm happy so thats all that really matters :p

fortyfourmag · 2014-12-03T03:59:22+00:00

link to the post about having a mission? might be the limitations of reddit on mobile but i cant seen to find it.

[deleted] · 2014-12-03T14:45:47+00:00

I read a similar article that gave a qualitative overview of the whole situation where children A and B are gifted. A gets told "you're so smart" when they get a good mark on an exam. B gets told "you must have worked hard" when they get a good mark. B grows up much more capable of hard work and with much more will to use their abilities. A grows up afraid to fail.

I was an A and I struggle to overcome my tendencies every day. We're all gonna make it brah.

soccerplusaviation · 2014-12-03T19:07:31+00:00

OP this is a fucking great post. As a kids growing up, my parents raised me and my brother such that assertiveness, lust, flirtationous and wanting to hang out with friends was punished and getting good grades and doing good in sports was rewarded. It messed up my social skills and now my brother and I are playing catch up.

Now my sister who is 6 years younger than me, is very assertive and dominant and good and school cause my parents mellowed out on her. And the ways she talks with such assertiveness around my parents scares me sometime.

Anyways, a common idea on RP is that men are raised to be BP and a lot of discussions are about how to become RP, which is tailored to mostly young adults.

How does one raise a RP child?

CastratedBetaOrbiter · 2014-12-04T20:12:45+00:00

Why are you so surprised?

People who get into medical school are "yes" men by default. Once you go through your rotations, you'll realize the people who do well are "yes" men.

Then when they are attendings, they are still "yes" men to the hospital administrators and Medicare. Doctors in my experience are a bunch of ball-less people. They'll bitch and complain nonstop about their bad hours, bad pay, etc, but they won't do anything about it.

Also, to get into medical school, you had to study your ass off, not socialize a lot. AKA 80% of male physicians have no game.

Sure there is that 20% that seem to be good at everything - was in a frat, top student, varsity sports player, etc... But most MDs are the run of the mill beta booknerds.

[deleted] · 2014-12-03T05:55:50+00:00

Couple things:

There ARE different levels of doctors, and women notice that. Surgeons get the pussy way wetter than other docs, in general.
As for their GFs and wives, there's a strong beta and liberal culture in medicine. Many fully buy into it. A lot of those guys were nerdy and spent so many years studying, they never had time to socialize, much less develop social skills. Many got tied down before they finishing med school or residency. Many are on a 3rd wife and are more interested in companionship now than sex (happens as you get older). Many don't want to deal with the hot chick who is nothing but a pain in the ass. I often come across fellow med-students who are more interested in a good mother than a hot chick (usually from more traditional cultures). There are many reasons, many of which are pretty good, IMO.
Docs have, to at least some degree, alpha characteristics. It takes a lot of drive and you have to be better than a lot of other people to get into med school. They have certain alpha qualities but usually have many beta qualities, too, especially when it comes to women and social issues.

As for the theory, what's the evidence for it? Any good? The recent research in how important genetics is in our personality traits is beginning to make me think that initiative and motivation are much more nature than nurture. I find it hard to believe a lot of these theories that rely on subtle childhood changes in environment (serious abuse and things like that are of course very different). I'd like to hear more.

CostaDelicata · 2014-12-03T15:53:36+00:00

I think the doctors you pity with their ugly wives snuggle happily at night with a Person whom they get along with, share laughs with and are very compatible with intellectually. Looks are fleeting, but character ... character is something doctors need in their partners, as they spend so much time away from home. Character is something plenty of pretty people (men and women alike) neglect to develop

[deleted] · 2014-12-03T07:27:54+00:00

Definitely. One example is me (and another poster from earlier today!) having said their mother raised them to be beta. It stems from women never saying what they want and expecting men to pass the shit tests. The problem happens when you barely have a father figure to lead you the right way and not listen to (non RP) moms.

seeing-red- · 2014-12-03T16:07:50+00:00

That sounds like a very interesting book that would resonate with me, I've added it to my future reading list but I'd welcome a summary.

Idle_Redditing · 2014-12-03T16:10:28+00:00

but the basic idea is that through a very specific early childhood mechanism, some mothers (or other caregivers) kill off self-determination and initiative in the child and causes long-term repression of aspects of the self in the child. I can go into the mechanism and the outline of the book a bit more if this post gets interest,

Please tell us more about it. How would self-determination and initiative get destroyed?

TigersOfAmoy · 2014-12-03T16:56:01+00:00

As an Asian American as well it's really refreshing to read some of the great comments here on family psychology, and not stuff that sounds like it's written out of a 1920s eugenics textbook.

Title	Betas, med school in America, and "The Drama of the Gifted Child"
Author	The_BitterTruth
Upvotes	18
Comments	43
Date	December 3, 2014 3:41 AM UTC (11 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/TheRedPill
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/2o4bdb/betas_med_school_in_america_and_the_drama_of_the/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/TheRedPill/betas-med-school-in-america-and-the-drama-of-the.25720 https://theredarchive.com/post/25720

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