Do you think that women are incapable of loyalty ?

_ArchitectofThought_ · 2015-05-29T23:53:09+00:00

You've asked this question before. My answer hasn't changed as I was unconvinced previously.

It's been my strongly affirmed life experience that women are considerably less loyal than men. I have lost friends over it.

Women appear to exhibit loyalty on a convenience based basis for those they are not attracted to.

Women appear to exhibit deification on those they are attracted to, or are currently sexually engaged with.

Women appear to go back to convenience based loyalty after the height of lust is passed and the relationship moves into LTR. It just so happens that it's typically VERY convenient to remain loyal to her SO, but it seems to me most women will cheat if "sexually threatened" (read: seduced, intrigued away, convinced to stray...etc) with enough stimulae.

I've been able to almost make a woman cheat once. It was interesting to see her battle between loyalty and lust.

mordanus · 2015-05-30T01:52:13+00:00

Women are not incapable of loyalty. They are very loyal to their alpha bad boy and when that guy leaves her she will stay loyal to him for a very long time. That's called alpha widow. The next guys that she dates will always be compared to that guy.

If a woman however chooses to be in a LTR then I absolutely don't believe she will be loyal to him. She will only be loyal to herself. There is no other loyalty for a woman. Once her ltr loses his job or is caught crying because his mother died she immediately loses respect and love for the guy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lPesKyIhGZg

As long as you are her best option your woman will gladly stay, but once something better comes along or if you fall down a few pegs she is out.

[deleted] · 2015-05-29T23:17:02+00:00

I find women more loyal, in the sense of sexual fidelity.

I find men more reliable, in terms of adhering to his word.

Kill_Your_Ego · 2015-05-29T23:29:19+00:00

(In this post alpha and beta are used as they would in an evolution text. No red pill arguing please.)

Because in our animal youth beta men were cast out of the herd and lived solitary lives. As we learned to cooperate our word became our bond. Meanwhile women lived inside the herd for protection and child rearing. So women evolved towards herd agreement and civility, while men evolved to tackle hard unacceptable truths and bond through trust not herdism.

A woman cast from the herd would never reproduce. Her children would die when a predator attacked or she had trouble finding enough food. Beta men did not have any children with them and had an excess of energy and strength so they did not need the herd.

Civilization arose as we found ways to create the social institution of fatherhood and paternal kin selection. This invested beta men into the herd and into the children.

We now have so so many years of attacks against paternal kin selection and fatherhood. Which is an absolutely insane thing to do because fatherhood is a social construct and without social support we go back to the herd system. Where only the alpha males are invested. The beta males exist outside the herd.

Once again our idiotic elite are trying to create a civilization by forcing beta men to contribute to the herd with threats of "illegal" debtors prisons, murdering men who fail to contribute enough, intense shaming and guilt, and societal wide brain washing. Men are reacting by minimizing their involvement with society. The alpha men get upset and pass laws to further punish the beta men. Women, finding themselves bereft of resources and living in a herd again, where only numbers provide them protection from predators, typically herd outcast males, support the punishment of the beta men.

This only further drives the beta men away and into isolation.

We are currently living in a herd. The women move up the herdiarchy through the alphas so they will not commit to a beta. The betas react by running game on the women in the herd. Often the women who are already on the outskirts of the herd. They are more vulnerable. So women won't be loyal to the beta.

The beta knows this and knows that he exists outside the herd. So he lives in isolation, going MGTOW, and learns game so he can satisfy his massive sex drive. He can't create his own herd because it's an incredibly rare woman who can exist outside the herd. And other beta males also want to find this unicorn. He knows that of the women he poaches from the herd gets into a bind that could damage her on the herdiarchy she's going to cry "domestic violence" or "rape" or "abuse" or whatever. Whatever the herd has designated as her way to avoid responsibility.

Beta men are realizing that we are back to herd living. And the herd is powerful. So they don't commit even if they want to.

[deleted] · 2015-05-30T00:49:39+00:00

A woman's love is based on cues which are out of line with romantic ideals of wishywashy love.

A man loves a woman based on things which match up pretty well with romantic notions of unconditional loyalty and love.

The end result is men will pursue women, he will create most of the romance and expend most of the effort to keep the it going, men will also die for women and provide for them all their life. The women will have sex for the same once in a while.

cxj · 2015-05-30T01:00:08+00:00

This is not my experience. When I was falsely accused of DV, I had over 10 women willing to testify on my behalf that they had been in an intimate relationship with me and that I was non violent. Many of them flat out said "yeah you are a piece of shit, but you aren't THAT bad, and you don't deserve this." I also had an ex gf and an ex fwb who violently confronted my ex who accused me, lol.

[deleted] · 2015-05-30T04:08:36+00:00

My wise sensi once told me, "These damsels be not loyal". Who am I to question this wise guru? If you are wondering, my teacher is a wise hermit monk,proficient in boxing, who lives alone atop a sky tower in the concrete jungle. He goes by the name of Christopher Maurice Brown Guruji.

despisedlove2 · 2015-05-30T08:22:03+00:00

Looking at the real world, I can see lots of people cheat. Men used to do it more before, now women caught up. Women initiate most divorces, but they also have less to lose. People who have power on their side frequently use it - you can see it in very powerful rich men, and women where divorce laws are on their side. They say "A woman's loyalty is tested when the man has nothing, and the man's loyalty is tested when he has everything". I believe it to be true. People with principles are not easy to find, or help create. It's easier to find powerless people who are willing to trade loyalty for your love/sex.

Atlas_B_Shruggin · 2015-05-29T23:16:18+00:00

Yes, to their children.

ProtoPill · 2015-05-29T23:10:36+00:00

Do you believe this is actually true?

No. In my experience, women are capable of loyalty on the same level as men. Women, like men, just need an incentive to remain loyal.

Atlas_B_Shruggin · 2015-05-29T23:12:30+00:00

Hypergamy isn't what prevents loyalty. Briffault's law is. Women evolved in a position where they were extremely vulnerable after conception. A pregnant woman won't last long in a prehistoric world. There's absolutely no way that she'll meet her caloric requirements while impaired by pregnancy. Her survival is 100% dependent on a strong male provider.

That male provider will have to take risks, fight, and possibly get injured. Injury couldn't possibly have been rare. What's our prehistoric gal supposed to do, stay with a man who can't provide due to something like injury? How's she gonna eat? What's gonna happen to her baby? So what she does is terminate the relationship as soon as he stops delivering.

Also , why are men more loyal than women if men (according to TRP) are naturally polygynous ?

They're loyal to their bros because they need they're bros in order to survive the hunts and fights. Men with options aren't loyal to women and beta loyalty, arising only out of scarcity of mates, doesn't really count.

whystoppnow · 2015-05-30T02:34:05+00:00

Yes women can be just as loyal. However men are raised to be more accountable and many hold tight to commitments, vows and codes. It's one reason why gangs are prominently male. I will admit that this may be offset by men that can easily cheat such as celebrities or the wealthy. Predominantly the determinant is a combination of ease of access and accountability. An independent woman would be less likely to cheat in my opinion for lack of time and a practice of accountability. But a dependant woman may say things "just happened" and is more easily influenced by authority. The women that I've known to cheat were of the dependant variety.

exit_sandman · 2015-05-30T18:04:20+00:00

Do you think that happily single women should have enough answers about women's loyalty/capacity to love/value as friends by now?

[deleted] · 2015-05-29T22:58:35+00:00

Do you believe this is actually true ?

No.

Also , why are men more loyal than women if men (according to TRP) are naturally polygynous ?

They are not. Since RPers clamor on about how men want to impregnate as many young fertile women as they can because biology, then considering them more loyal than women would be illogical and inconsistent.

MySnowflakeMelted · 2015-05-29T23:12:40+00:00

Women use situational loyalty, much like alpha men.

strongalfalfa · 2015-05-29T23:38:27+00:00

No of course not. This is the kind of misogyny present in TRP. Ignore it.

Atlas_B_Shruggin · 2015-05-29T22:51:30+00:00

If you think "hypergamy prevents it" then you must also concede that "attraction to younger, fitter women prevents it" in men.

[deleted] · 2015-05-30T01:44:55+00:00

these generalizations are idiotic. some do, some don't. how many? statistically speaking more than half of women admit they would cheat if they could get away with it. statistically speaking over half of marriages end in divorce and 70% of the time women are the ones that file. And there's no way to tell the difference between the ones that are loyal and the ones that aren't.

Nazrath2112 · 2015-05-29T23:13:19+00:00

Women are capable of loyalty. It just usually is not with beta, but they are quite loyal to womens groups and the such.

Are men and women loyal in the same way? This question i would answer no, they are not.

[deleted] · 2015-05-30T02:11:26+00:00

I believe that women can be loyal in the right circumstances, even without a full comprehension of loyalty. Men are more predisposed to use logic and think in the abstract, which makes them more likely to adhere to ideals like loyalty. Women are more emotion-oriented, however, which naturally makes their loyalty of a more fickle nature. In conclusion, I think a man can be more loyal than a woman if he wants to be.

Darth-Sin · 2015-05-30T09:43:40+00:00

Women are capable of loyalty in the same way a solely carnivorous creature is capable of being a vegan or a vegetarian.

They can, at best, pretend to be loyal but that's all that is. Pretension in order to get resources. Once they have their resources, that supposed loyalty will vanish real fast.

Title	Do you think that women are incapable of loyalty ?
Author	HappilySingleWoman
Upvotes	4
Comments	108
Date	May 29, 2015 10:42 PM UTC (11 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/37s158/do_you_think_that_women_are_incapable_of_loyalty/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/do-you-think-that-women-are-incapable-of-loyalty.281882 https://theredarchive.com/post/281882

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