To non Red Pillers, do you believe that evolutionary logic is a sound basis for examining how humans choose partners?

AdbelR · 2014-06-07T02:55:01+00:00

No, they lack the ability to realize people change, learn, adapt, and grow.

[deleted] · 2014-06-07T02:39:19+00:00

No, evo psych in general is pseudoscience. There is waaayyy too much speculation to call it science.

[deleted] · 2014-06-07T15:14:40+00:00

What is evolutionary logic?

Assuming that I know what you mean, evolution means adapt to changing conditions. If we humans are good at anything, it is adapting. So when RPs try to explain that a woman is choosing someone because of mammoth hunting or other cave man activities (that they known absolutely about!) I break out in gales of laughter. Because women don't adapt to new surroundings and realities?

And this is another complaint about TRP. If cavemen are so key to determining their theories, for fucks sake go learn about them. RPs don't know ANYTHING about anthropology. Every once in a while we get an anthropologist (or divorce court lawyer) poking their head in here and it is hiLARious.

And ignored.

Anyway.

TRP does not use logic to come to their conclusions. Evolutionary or otherwise. They use what is known as pseudoscience.

The academic papers I've seen discussed (and I use that word loosely) they don't know how to interpret, and don't know what the results signify.

There's also a huge problem with word definition. They use empathy and emotion interchangeably. ALL the time.

In short, despite all the Grrrrr! Men! Logic! STEM! Rational! They don't understand how to interpret the scientific data they cite. Are not logical in their attempts to do so, and most certainly- are not rational.

Rational is not a word I would associate with TRP.

LadyVetinari · 2014-06-07T03:22:20+00:00

No. Evo Psych is academically interesting, but completely inapplicable to individual situations - not to mention not fully validated yet, in the scholarly sphere.

It's the same as statistics - they work on meta data but are useless when n = 1.

When I see RPers use evo psych as "scientific proof" that backs up their worldview, it becomes apparent they have no idea what good science actually entails.

Edit: Not to mention they seem to deny that no one has yet to tease out the complicating factors of culture - it's all very vapid and simplistic thinking, simply a way to prove their feelings are right (and pretty desperately).

Yonderlander · 2014-06-07T06:25:31+00:00

Obviously our evolution and mainly in my opinion hormones have an affect on how we choose, but modern life and culture are waaaay too complicated to have such a simplistic and one sided view of how it all works.

RP is right in the ways it states the obvious. Yes ~~women~~ people are more attracted to ~~alfas~~ people who are confident, attractive, don't put them on a pedestal. Where I think it has gone wrong, is with pretty much everything else. RP Hypergamy is bullshit, so far as not just women but SOME PEOPLE are always on the lookout for better. Women are not less capable of true love, maybe SOME PEOPLE are less capable of true love. My main beef is all the sexual double standard. Men can fuck around but if women do they are 'ruined' and less suitable for LTR? Again, that may be true for SOME PEOPLE male or female.

I know, the one who has to carry the baby is more selective blah blah blah. Get real, this is modern life. When modern people sleep around they're hooking up, not trying to reproduce and fully aware of the fact.

The Red Pill's conclusions fall down any time you a) realise that the things they say about women actually just apply to SOME PEOPLE male or female, and b) if you actually put yourself in the place of the women you are talking about.

mollymollykelkel · 2014-06-07T17:45:13+00:00

The problem with evolutionary psychology is that it can only give us information about the past. This is useful to a degree, but it doesn't tell us a lot about the present. Lack of empirical evidence is also an issue. Developmental, cognitive, and biopsychology are better suited for this.

I think TRP puts waaaaaaay too much faith in genetics and biology in general. Sure, men and women have differences in order to procreate, but these differences are going to vary greatly from person to person. This is why TRP works with a certain type of woman but not most women. I personally feel that basing an entire ideology around gender differences is absurd.

[deleted] · 2014-06-07T02:01:10+00:00

I think that is partially correct, but I also believe that this theory leaves out the idea of individual autonomy and preferences that vary by the person.

Gothic90 · 2014-06-09T01:22:37+00:00

Sort of. Hormones, of course, affect partner choosing in several ways.

However, gorillas's social structure is different from what TRP says. Alpha gorillas maintain their "alpha" by violence towards betas and death threats to female gorillas should they choose to mate with a beta and not them. They even kill the children of beta gorillas.

None of which are acceptable in a human society. Yes, TRP has a lot of techniques that can be found in alphas in animal kingdom. Yes, alpha gorillas abuse their females. Threaten them if they do not fuck.

No, female gorillas don't enjoy being abused, neither do women. That's where TRP ultimately got wrong.

gentandscholar · 2014-06-07T02:59:25+00:00

Objectively, studies have shown patterns in how both sexes pick mates. Among other patterns, men often favor younger women and women, older men, for example. Whether you choose to believe there is an evolutionary basis for this or a societal/cultural basis or both (me personally) is up to you. However, as in the nature v nurture debate, sound studies seem to indicate some of both theories come into play.

Title	To non Red Pillers, do you believe that evolutionary logic is a sound basis for examining how humans choose partners?
Author	[deleted]
Upvotes	3
Comments	48
Date	June 7, 2014 1:55 AM UTC (12 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/27iq6b/to_non_red_pillers_do_you_believe_that/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/to-non-red-pillers-do-you-believe-that.285557 https://theredarchive.com/post/285557

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