Alpha and Beta

myfriendscantknow · 2014-04-30T22:56:50+00:00

I think it's the other way around. People have a problem with TRP, so the lingo they use gets the flak too. Also, calling yourself alpha just comes off as extremely cringey dick stroking.

[deleted] · 2014-05-02T07:30:44+00:00

Because "alpha" is usually defined as sexual success instead of being confident or being a natural leader - those things just help with sexual success.

In other words, I dislike the idea that my worth as a man is reduced to my ability to attract women.

My ability is fairly low, I don't care (still happily married, although being young sucked), I don't think it is an important, defining feature, and I respect a celibate inventor more than a playa who does nothing really meaningful with his life.

Another part of the problem is that the word came from observing wolves, and it implies that the whole thing is more biologicallly conditioned than I think it is. The point is not all mammals are like wolves - for example chimps are, bonobos aren't.

topgallant · 2014-04-30T23:46:49+00:00

Alpha / beta sounds like you think you are a wolves. Which you are not.

goatismycopilot · 2014-05-01T01:14:47+00:00

Very few people are either or. People desperately striving to label themselves as "Alpha" it is seem like a cool kid thing to do. I guess it is similar to how I feel when people have to make a piont of telling me how "confident" and "secure" they are, yawn.....

[deleted] · 2014-05-02T02:21:21+00:00

Why does TBP and reddit in general have a problem with the words Alpha and Beta?

Three reasons.

1) It's overly simplistic for the complex interpersonal relations in humans, not just on a psychological/social level but even on an evolutionary level. I would say in the nature of our species, it is more likely that there are several TYPES of betas and alphas.

2) The definitions of alpha/beta provided are more representative of species that aren't humans, such as wolves. What constitutes an "alpha" or ideal mate in humans is going to be different from what constitutes an "alpha" in wolves. Many people who throw the alpha/beta dichotomy around also tend to believe that sociopathic/Dark Triad/aggressive traits are favored in humans, which is not the case. Traits like bonding and empathy were selected for in our species (since grouping behavior is our primary adaptation, not brawn or strength), and to lack those traits is to be an inferior member.

Actually, many of the evolutionary favored traits in HUMANS are considered "beta" traits by TRP, and frowned upon. Basically to them, alpha is whatever they want it to be, not what it actually is. It's abstractly defined.

3) The general tendency to define your entire personality and value as a human being on whether you are "alpha" or "beta" is silly. We ARE a species capable of higher thought and likewise, your personality and value is going to involve aspects of higher thought, and you are going to be judged by others capable of higher thought.

endendino · 2014-05-01T09:48:13+00:00

alpha=cool guy+pseudoscience

beta=dork+pseudoscience

plus it's associated with awkward people so most folks don't want anything to do with those words. also see negging(which is interchangeable with teasing but is used exclusively by dorky puas).

MissPearl · 2014-05-01T12:18:26+00:00

I snark because I find that people within TRP have trouble giving me a consistent definition that doesn't vary between any two different people who identify that way and doesn't have a completely different application depending on who you talk to.

That and it's occasionally tied to consciously trying to be a horrid human being. (Dark triad, etc...)

I first encountered it with sexually submissive guys attempting to characterize themselves as "alpha" outside the bedroom, etc... They meant that they weren't inherently submissive to everyone, all the time, which is of course normal for subs of both genders, but it was a particular masculine quirk of self identity that claiming you were alpha tended to be because you were nervous you would be perceived as lesser.

Beyond that, I think it's about as dignified and fanciful as calling yourself a "princess"- it's a vocabulary term effective for marketing stuff even to adult women, but to a certain point you are going to look absolutely ridiculous if you buy heavily into how princess-y you are and announce you have to be the princess in all your relationships and never let them perceive you as being common.

GooseNewberg · 2014-05-01T01:12:13+00:00

A lot of people don't understand using existing words to describe an idea. They figure the terms relate to people, and thus, are insulting to anyone who isn't a beta.

In short, they don't understand, so they hate it.

[deleted] · 2014-05-02T08:35:40+00:00

I see "ALPHA MALE" being used to sell sports drinks and male grooming products now. It's cringey.

mc0079 · 2014-05-03T17:35:40+00:00

Because the terms alpha and beta where hijacked from the science/academic community by PUA's trying to sell DVD's and dating classes to men who are insecure. There is little/no scientific basis for their use in human behavior, and were originally used to describe pack animal (wolf) behavior. As well, even in the wolf pack studies, beta's where not some weak wolf, but just a younger wolf waiting to challenge or take it's place.

Not to mention the type of behavior characterized as "alpha and beta" deviate so wildly from person to person it is really impossible to have conversation regarding the assignment of either.

formicarium · 2014-05-04T13:26:28+00:00

When applied to animals, the terms alpha and beta have a strong connection to wolf research which has now been completely discredited. Also it looks a little conceited to insist (with anecdotal evidence only) that there are two categories of men and that you fall into the cooler more special of the two.

autowikibot · 2014-06-05T22:19:52+00:00

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_dilemma

What if a man marries a super model, and provides for her financially, and receives epic sex in return? Is he alpha or beta? What if he cheats, so she divorces him and takes all his money? Is he alpha or beta?

Title	Alpha and Beta
Author	[deleted]
Upvotes	6
Comments	26
Date	April 30, 2014 10:09 PM UTC (12 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/24elrz/alpha_and_beta/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/alpha-and-beta.285794 https://theredarchive.com/post/285794

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