What does TBP think of r/toronto 's criticism of the mall PUAs

regtopolous · 2013-12-07T05:37:28+00:00

I'm skeptical about these bootcamps utility to even help the guys they're supposed to help.

LeaneGenova · 2013-12-07T15:37:34+00:00

There are several issues with what you said.

First: The PUA's need is greater than the two minutes of the woman's time - how do you know that? Just because someone has a greater problem doesn't mean that they are entitled to something, including a "few minutes" of someone's time. The larger problem is that the tactics used are high pressure - you can't just say no and have that person go on their merry way.

Second: You state that you don't care if you're annoying the woman, because it's important to you. That's an inherently problematic statement - You don't care about the woman (who you're hitting on) feeling uncomfortable, as long as it's good to you. That's pretty selfish, and people are good at picking up on social cues like that. No wonder they're uncomfortable!

Third: The rule to TRP is to avoid saying NAWALT. You've transitioned from that to some women like being picked up, so no other woman should be able to criticize random guys trying to follow around girls and women as a Forever 21. A store in the mall is not the type of place that women generally go to be picked up. It's called an appropriate forum, and they failed on that. Calling that out isn't going to make it harder for women who are in an appropriate forum from meeting new people, and your entire premise on that is a sham.

Personally, I find the idea of a horde of guys using canned lines on women trying to shop disturbing. It's also detrimental because the negative response from women, management and the mall are going to feed into the worldview they're constructing as confirmation bias.

polyhooly · 2013-12-07T05:04:52+00:00

The PUAs need to overcome the problems they have with talking to women is more important than the 2 minutes of this woman's time.

That is some serious entitlement. Women don't owe these guys jack. Women do not exist to fix socially awkward guy's problems. This attitude is one reason why many Red Pillers are so angry at women: They believe women owe them something because of this absurd pedestal they have placed women on. When a woman does not live up to the Red Pillers (unfair) expectation, you get angry, as if you have been cheated out of something rightly owed to you.

The second issue I have with this comment is that PUA is one of the worst ways of overcoming the social and "in the presence of females" anxiety come guys have. These guys selling the PUA product are nothing but scammers. Their advice is just bad. Beginning a conversation with complementing someone's looks is generally awkward: "You're gorgeous." "Uh, thanks." ::cue crickets:: And then putting pressure on them to hang out with you escalates the awkwardness. It's just cheesy and desperate. What men who buy into the PUA don't understand is that this behavior makes them a dime a dozen. Back in the day of Myspace I would log in to several messages along the lines of "Hey gorgeous," "You're a cutie, let's hang out sometime."

There are some girls that genuinely do want guys approaching them. Demonizing cold approaches are gonna make things even worse for women that would like it if new guys came and talked to them more.

No one is demonizing men approaching women. What people have an issue with is PUA attitudes about women and ideas about appropriate public behavior. There is a time and place for everything. Getting together who knows how many guys in one space and instructing them to "beast out," or whatever, on a relatively small group of women who are just trying to go about their day, is obnoxious, awkward, and I would go as far as saying it is hostile.

[deleted] · 2013-12-07T19:32:42+00:00

As in from the PUAs standpoint, I don't care if I'm annoying to you, this is very important for my personal development.

Yeah, that's kind of the problem though. Fine, annoying people isn't a huge deal. However, you're hardly learning people skills if you're mindset is "I don't care if I make you uncomfortable, talk to me anyway because I want to".

There are some girls that genuinely do want guys approaching them. Demonizing cold approaches are gonna make things even worse for women that would like it if new guys came and talked to them more.

As far as I can tell, it wasn't the cold approach that was demonized, it was the scripted fake sales pitch. These guys weren't taught any social skills, they were just given lines and encouraged to try them out on people who wanted to go about their day. If the group had been about helping them find natural ways to talk to girls and going to the bar to try out some approaches that would be a much different story.

Some of the reactions are harsh, but people are reacting to this the way people should be expected to react to it, imo. It's socially unconventional and insincere. It doesn't follow the accepted give and take social transcript. It's like, if you walked into the mall carrying around your pet banana on a string and talking to it and petting it and then got all offended when people looked at you funny and complained that you made them uncomfortable. That's what happens when you break social conventions. If you're not prepared for that reaction, stay home.

myfriendscantknow · 2013-12-07T15:07:45+00:00

We had a thread.

Title	What does TBP think of r/toronto 's criticism of the mall PUAs
Author	Mayoyayo
Upvotes	5
Comments	49
Date	December 7, 2013 4:16 AM UTC (12 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/1sao1s/what_does_tbp_think_of_rtoronto_s_criticism_of/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/what-does-tbp-think-of-rtoronto-s-criticism-of-the.286523 https://theredarchive.com/post/286523

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