Potentially Getting Engaged. Asking for Guidance.

Red-Curious · 2018-08-25T04:39:22+00:00

This seems like a disaster marriage waiting to happen. As OZ often says, "If it's not a hell yeah, it's a hell no." But I suspect the deeper issue here is that you're misreading her.

Let me ask this: how would she respond if you said that marrying her was contingent on her getting a boob job?

You say:

She is faithful. Will she faithfully honor this request?
She is teachable. Will she accept your instruction on why it's important to you to have a wife with bigger breasts?
She is a strong Christian. Will she submit to her leader's instructions?
She will basically do anything you ask her to do because she loves you and wants to serve you. Will she do this too?

My guess is she'd probably chew you out for being so insensitive and call you shallow, and likely cry about how she could have been so blind about how her boyfriend was really feeling. You even admit this when you say, "I know it would destroy her if she knew this."

So, when you're describing all of these wonderful traits about her, what you really mean is: "She's so wonderful and perfect in all these different ways! ... when it's easy for her to be that way."

You are experiencing selective perception in your relationship. Your emotional connection to her, most likely because of the pair-bonding you experienced from premarital sex, is causing you to perceive things in a distorted manner. You're seeing weak evidence of certain positive traits and expounding on them as if that's definitive evidence of some grandiose measure that she'd never actually live up to in real life.

I'm not saying you should actually ask her to get a boob job. There's a whole host of personal preference and scriptural issues that would have to be ironed out before you go there. What I am saying is that her reaction to questions like that would be very telling about how great of a catch she actually is.

What's even more concerning is that she's not even respecting you in small ways. For example, you say she has ...

a juvenile tendency to do gross/inappropriate things around her friends (she refrains when around me, but she doesn’t have the intention to stop this)

If she's not going to be "faithful," "teachable," a "strong Christian," and "basically do anything you ask her to do because she loves yo and wants to serve you" even on something so small as juvenile mannerisms, how much less when it comes to something big and important like a boob job ... not to mention everything in-between.

The bottom line is that you don't seem all that into her, so why are you still investing in the relationship? You marry her, I promise - 100% guaranteed - that around 10 years from now you'll see all the other 22 year olds you could be pulling and how much better looking and more respectful and honoring they would be ... and you'll be wondering why you were so foolish as to have gotten married so soon.

Then again, there is the whole thing that you've already had sex ... so I understand the reason to want to justify your sin by saying, "At least it was with my wife."

Also, why do you want to get married in the first place? Being so new to the manosphere, my guess is that you still have lots and lots and lots of blue pill ideologies about marriage and relationships that you've only begun to scratch the surface on. This really concerns me. Until you've fleshed out all your blue, you're probably not in a right frame to be making a wise decision in the first place.

The blue pill in you is particularly evident in all of your questions toward the end:

Is this normal? Can/should this desire be extinguished? If I did find a more attractive woman, would I even be satisfied then? When does the chase end? I really thought I was ready to marry her. What is keeping me from being content. Should I go through with it? Will these feelings go away eventually? Is this a sign I shouldn’t propose? Am I being a huge jerk? Or am I just scared of being locked in for life? I feel like I shouldn’t be doubting this. When it’s time, shouldn’t I be itching to marry her? Or is this all just a consequence of having sex early? I don’t know. I need guidance.

These questions show me that you're still being controlled by social expectations on what the "right" thing to do is.

Needless to say, this is expected. That's why you're here! That's why we're here! - to help you weed out the blue. You're right to be asking these questions because that's how you bring these latent ideologies to the surface. But you won't be ready to propose to her until you're at a point where you don't have these types of questions anymore. When you have your own mission and a strong enough frame that you don't care what these other guys in your church - or even the people on this sub - have to say about your life decisions (with confident humility, and not because of stubborn obstinacy) ... that's when you'll be ready to decide for yourself whether or not you should propose to someone.

Until you're at that point, I'd recommend taking a step back.

matrixtospartanatLV · 2018-08-25T03:45:04+00:00

I’ll comment again when I have more time, but for now, I’ll share something my mother taught me.

What you don’t like about her before marriage, you will loathe about her after marriage.

For a whole LOT of reasons, this marriage will result in a dumpster fire YOU lit.

Pray for wisdom and strength to end it.

Do you see now how premarital sex can skew things?

Edit: u/Red-Curious gave you a much better long-version than I had in mind. Read it more than once.

Serious_Tour · 2018-08-25T07:10:32+00:00

Don't marry the person you think you can live with; marry only the individual you think you can't live without.

RPCJoeMak · 2018-08-25T15:23:13+00:00

Marriage is a huge step. I have been married for 28yrs the same woman. It's an absolute blessing with the right woman. It's an absolute nightmare with with wrong woman.

You have enough red flags to be concerned about for sure. I feel that the red flags could turn into a lot of regret and ill-will later on.

I think it would help to work on your frame quite a bit more. In marriage you will need to be a confident leader. You are not ready for that role yet based on all the self-doubt exhibited toward the end of your post.

You have a scarcity mindset about what is available to you in the sexual market place. Go get the best you can get in a mate. Right now you have list of things that you could "live with" in a person. That sounds like a lot of reverse engineering to me. She has some things that you really don't like, but you have convinced yourself that you could live with all of those things. Keep looking.

Deep_Strength · 2018-08-25T08:57:01+00:00

Again, going to come at this from a different angle from all of the other commenters because it's worth doing. I agree with them in some respects, but you need to be thoughtful in others.

She is great in almost every way. She is faithful, teachable, educated, funny, a strong Christian, and has almost every personality trait I am looking for. Family is great. Politics are great and well thought out. She will basically do anything I ask her to do because she loves me and wants to serve me. She will be a GREAT mother. I believe for the most part she is not just faking these traits to get me 'hooked'. She is awesome. We have fallen into sexual temptation several times, but have repented and are committed to abstaining. Some negative things are slight breaches of trust (her oversharing things about me/us to her friends), and a juvenile tendency to do gross/inappropriate things around her friends (she refrains when around me, but she doesn’t have the intention to stop this).

As /u/Red-Curious said, you say she's all these things, but have you seen her be faithful and teachable when she's angry or she doesn't get her way?
If she's such an excellent Christian, why did you both fall to pre-marital sex? It's good that you repented and are abstaining though.
If she is teachable and faithful here, have you tried correcting her breaches of trust and other things like that?

A lot of these things are things that you SHOULD be doing prior to marriage to gauge her character and ability to respond to difficult situations. You will DEFINITELY run into difficult situations in marriage, so it's important that you bring up tough scenarios when dating to see how she responds. If she avoids conflict or becomes very contentious, that's a bad sign.

As for physical attractiveness, my SMV is a little higher than her’s (7.5 to 6.5). I’m a little skinny, but athletic, fairly cut, and improving. She has a little extra fat overall (mostly on legs and butt which looks good now but could potentially get out of control), but not too much. She is still decently attractive overall. She works out, is strong, athletic, and eats healthy (If we do get married, I'm gonna teach her the compound lifts). Her biggest physical detractor is having very small breasts. I was willing to compromise on this because so many other things about her are so on point. However, I OFTEN find myself wishing she was more attractive (mostly desiring larger breasts). I see women with way nicer breasts every day and wish she had them. And I feel like such an trash human being for having these feelings. I know it would destroy her if she knew this, because that’s one of the only things she can’t change. I can't talk to anyone about this at my church. All the potential mentors have known her all her life and definitely care about her more than me. (And many of the men seem content with fat wives anyway. That’s not someone I want relationship advice from) Sometimes, I convince myself I'm being ridiculous, but I can never fully kick the thoughts out of my head. I feel like such a piece of rubbish even typing this.

Again, going back to the teachable aspect...

If you think she's a little overweight/fat then have you told her that you think she needs to lose a bit of weight?
Why haven't you tried to teach her the compound lifts now? My wife already did some exercise, but I got mine into more lifting once we started dating.
Does she age well? You can look at her mother and/or family for a general estimation of how she may age and if there is general weight gain too.

Again, you want to see if she is teachable on these topics or becomes rebellious or contentious.

ON THE OTHER HAND:

You shouldn't feel ashamed for your preferences, though you're never going to find a 'perfect' woman. There are always going to be some compromises.
Are you falling for the 'grass is greener' syndrome? It's one thing to 'think' you can pull better in terms of SMV, but a really great woman is very hard to find.
Also, self SMV evaluation can be a grave error. There's many men and women who evaluate themselves higher than they are. If you have any trusted women friends you know, you can get their evaluation of your attractiveness (doesn't really matter what you or your male friends think.. it's what women think when they evaluate your SMV).
My wife's boobs are a bit bigger than I naturally prefer, but I've grown to be very fond of them anyway. They do also get bigger when she's pregnant, so keep that in mind.

Although I am usually a huge proponent of only marrying someone that you are really attracted to (and vice versa for the wife for her husband), there are naturally things to consider in the opposite direction which I noted.

purifash · 2018-08-25T16:38:18+00:00

I have been there. I married her. Get her pregnant and her breast will grow. Keep her pregnant and she will satisfy you.

There are no soul-mates. Just a woman who will pair-bond with you, for better or worse.

The "gross/inappropriate" behavior could play nicely down the road, I the bedroom.

Jalakee · 2018-08-26T14:21:55+00:00

Dude there are so many red flags in this post I cant even see straight. You are making concessions for her left and right and have essentially spelled out all the reasons why you should not marry her and are not even ready to get married yourself.

Let me list a few:

-You havent even been dating a year

-You are ho-hum about her general looks ("she's not unattractive at all"...come on man.)

-You cant stand her breasts, to the point you salivate over other girl's breasts

-You have reservations about her occasional crude behavior

-Doesnt sound like you have a lot of male friends

-You need more experience with women

Let me reiterate for you: Anything you dont like about her before marriage, you will grow to loathe after marriage. Especially reservations about looks. And get over the "shallow" self-shaming. It's nothing to be ashamed of. Physical attraction is a rate-limiting step. You cant pass GO until you are happy here.

And why would you make concessions for your future wife?!? I'm not saying you need to marry a 10, but if you dont like her chubby thighs and small boobs now, man I can see your future and it is a dead bedroom...at best.

Look, when I was dating, I had numerous girlfriends who would have made great wives and mothers. Objectively. I had numerous girlfriends who were pretty...objectively. But none of them were right for me. I would go round and round in circles like you and try to talk myself into them, until I realized how dumb that is.

When you know, you know, as trite as that sounds. You wont have to talk yourself into it or hear someone else tell you she's the right one. Until then, you're gonna have to the hard thing and break it off with her, and keep getting back in that saddle.

wkndatbernardus · 2018-08-25T20:37:26+00:00

Large boobs are a turn on for me to the point where, even with a tall, slender model type girl, it's harder (ha!) to get aroused than with an out of shape girl with a nice rack. Mind you, she can't be a complete fat fest but, yeah, somehow, large breasts on a woman are pretty necessary for me to consider dating her. Unfortunately, most large chested women are on the heavier side. Not all, but most. So, I've struggled a bit with owning the public perception of being with a bigger girl. But guess what? That has made me more sure of myself and, by extension, confident.

Also, remember that, from a natural standpoint, the point of marriage is to procreate which can't be done without banging your wife. So, if it's more difficult for you to get aroused by your current gf than other large chested women, you're doing yourself and your gf a disservice by staying with her. If your gf has a nice booty, some black or Latino dude will thank you for dumping her.

[deleted] · 2018-08-25T23:20:53+00:00

Not sure if you put a post up to actually respond to the comments or to just confirm your biases. Either way, you not being satisfied with your woman with small breasts would be tantamount to a woman feeling jipped bc her man has a small penis or worst ED. She should either not marry him or divorce him for lack of performance. Sounds so ancillary now doesn't it?

Now consider Ecclesiastes. King Solomon had everything a man could desire.....wisdom, wealth, land, livestock, concubines, mistresses, AND wives. You name it, he had it and yet he still wasn't satisfied. His conclusion: fear God and keep His commandments.....that is what will fully satisfy you.

Eccl. 12:13

Title	Potentially Getting Engaged. Asking for Guidance.
Author	LaCremaFresca
Upvotes	11
Comments	18
Date	August 25, 2018 2:35 AM UTC (5 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/RPChristians
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/RPChristians/comments/9a3i06/potentially_getting_engaged_asking_for_guidance/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/RPChristians/potentially-getting-engaged-asking-for-guidance.301772 https://theredarchive.com/post/301772