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The_Junto
[–]LosingMoneyAllDay17 points18 points19 points 11 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
My favourite novel, by far.
Paraphrasing:
"A man can get along with a woman, provided he does not love her".
[–]HeiligOrwell6 points7 points8 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
“A man can be happy with any woman as long as he does not love her.”
[–]reigorius-1 points0 points1 point 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
But how does one keep and maintain a long term relationship if one would like to have one to make and raise kids? It takes two to tango.
[–]hikiru2 points3 points4 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
One must lead and the other must follow. That's how dancing works, however if your not leading the steps of your "partner" will flow to one who controls the dance.
The only way to maintain a long term relationship is a combination of soft dread and keeping the carrot dangling before them. Even then you still run the risk of her straying and ending up divorce raped.
[–]knitro6 points 11 years ago [recovered] (18 children) | Copy Link
Check the post format rules for the subreddit, and I'd say you have to edit this to reflect them.
On topic, Wilde famously said about the work:
"Basil Hallward is what I think I am: Lord Henry what the world thinks me: Dorian what I would like to be — in other ages, perhaps"
That's really all you need to know about who the characters are - Basil reflects the fears Wilde had in life, Henry is a caricature with elements of truth - Dorian is a archetype.
More info here
Oscar Wilde is one of the great social thinkers - definitely worth learning about. Also important to know that he was a well known homosexual who died following jail time for sodomy of meningitis likely from syphilis - to show you sometimes the unlikeliest of sources can be the wisest.
[–]The_Junto[S] 3 points4 points5 points 11 years ago (16 children) | Copy Link
Fascinating, I had no idea he was gay. Still doesn't detract in the least from his work. And I'll work on the formatting, still getting the hang of the site. Adding to the topic, one of Henry's quotes that stuck out the most to me was "women love to be dominated". It's as if the whole time Wilde was peppering in some red pill wisdom and BAM he just goes out and fucking says it in as blunt a way as possible. Great read.
[–]StManTiS13 points14 points15 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Being freed from attraction to women allowed him to see them as they are, not through hormonally tinged eyes.
[–]Pink_acetaminophen3 points4 points5 points 11 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Yeah he was so gay he went to jail for it. The thing is that he was actually married to a woman and had kids but his mistress was a young spoiled man. He has a lot of great quotes about women and ironically his whole was destroyed because of his over entitled boyfriend.
[–][deleted] 5 points6 points7 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
How can a woman be expected to be happy with a man who insists on treating her as if she were a perfectly normal human being.
Oscar Wilde
[–][deleted] 3 points4 points5 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
He certainly knew the value of pussy...zero
[–]Endorsed Contributornyrp0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link
Fun fact. He repented of his lifestyle and converted to Catholicism on his deathbed.
[–]NikoMyshkin 1 points1 points1 points 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
but did he? sounds like something some crazy christian would make up.
[–]Endorsed Contributornyrp0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago [recovered] (8 children) | Copy Link
He did
On November 28,1900, as Wilde lay dying on his bed in Paris, Robbie Ross called in a priest, an English Passionist, Father Dunne. Wilde was given conditional Baptism and was anointed. For a short time he emerged from delirium into lucidity, and Father Dunne, examining him, was satisfied that Wilde freely desired reception into the Church. Wilde died a Catholic on November 30.
Claims of the deathbed conversion of famous or influential figures are commonly used as rhetorical devices, but are rarely verifiable.
From the above link regarding Oscar Wilde (my emphasis): "Author and wit Oscar Wilde allegedly converted to Catholicism during his final illness."
[–]Endorsed Contributornyrp0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago* [recovered] (6 children) | Copy Link
Right. And my link was the story that is alleged. I wasn't fucking there in his final two days. But the story is the story.
OJ Simpson also allegedly killed his wife. But he was found not guilty.
What do you want? I shared the story.
Pretty much people believe the story that fits with what they want. You want him to be a gay icon, he rebelled against the church to the end. You want to believe he realized the errors of his ways, the conversion story is believable. I happen to believe he, like Joyce, had a lifelong struggle with Catholicism. I believe he converted with death at his doorstep at a young age.
But putting allegedly in bold print has its merits as an argument I suppose. He also allegedly did not convert.
FWIW, I am friends with some Catholic clergy and one was close to Amy Winehouse. Don't know if she converted, but she was carrying Catholic sacramentals and learning Catholic prayers in her final year.
Yeah you have a point; he may have converted - there is some precedent for such behaviour. The problem is that there is also precedent for crazies going around claiming that all sorts of people 'repented' right before their death.
I'm not gay and am not fussed about keeping him a gay icon or whatever. i just don't like the dead being misrepresented. He was very publically very gay and the church wasn't very nice to him just because of that. So to suggest he converted at the ended is always going to make me touchy because of how he was treated.
[–]Endorsed Contributornyrp0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago [recovered] (4 children) | Copy Link
I agree with you. And it is probably useless to discuss further. As the Catholics say, no man can judge what is in another's heart. He may have secretly prayed his whole life to be given the strength to abandon his hedonism. He may have been abused by a priest. He may have made a private bet against God that he could fuck men and pay no consequence. There is no way to know. And no evidence can convince another of what is truly in a man's heart. His heart may even be opaque to his own conscious mind.
[–]NikoMyshkin1 points 11 years ago* [recovered] (3 children) | Copy Link
It sounds like you are Catholic and hold as irrefutable truth that being gay = sin. I would like to distance myself from this as I find it totally without merit. Sexuality does not affect morality. This is my position.
From Wilde's writings I cannot fathom him having much interest in a faith-based institution - especially one that limits hedonistic pursuits. Wilde was into aesthetics, high culture, excess. These things oppose religious humility. But as you say perhaps he craved opposites.
I would like to end by stating that I find gay shaming to be unmittigably distateful and I sincerely hope you will eventually reach a state of enlightenment that lets you understand that sexual orientation is completely irrelevant with regards to morality.
Have a nice day.
[–]scrantonic1ty2 points3 points4 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
sometimes the unlikeliest of sources can be the wisest.
Watch how flamboyantly gay men behave around women. They literally don't give a fuck, they'll call them out on their bullshit, and women find that endearing.
Homosexuals are by definition unplugged from the hetero sexual marketplace and can view it with objectivity.
Bret Easton Ellis is another interesting social thinker. I don't think American Psycho could've been written by a heterosexual man or woman.
[–]AureliusThunderkok3 points4 points5 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
And the moral is this: All excess, as well as all renunciation, brings its own punishment. The painter, Basil Hallward, worshipping physical beauty far too much, as most painters do, dies by the hand of one in whose soul he has created a monstrous and absurd vanity. Dorian Gray, having led a life of mere sensation and pleasure, tries to kill conscience, and at that moment kills himself. Lord Henry Wotton seeks to be merely the spectator of life. He finds that those who reject the battle are more deeply wounded than those who take part in it.
[–]wanderer7790 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
of the three I thought Lord Wotton was the best to emulate. I think people will argue that a guy who doesn't care about anyone ends up with no one caring about him. But I'm of the opinion that caring about people is an old code that no longer applies. Blood relatives are sometimes an exception, but everyone else will sell you out when they no longer need you.
[–][deleted] 4 points5 points6 points 11 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
here is some RP truth from Oscar
“The truth is rarely pure and never simple.” - Oscar Wilde
[–]Bocaj64870 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Don't agree here. The truth is simple, powerful, and sharp. And in the case of discovering the red pill, cutting you
[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
It's so simple that the majority of men don't know it. Nor are they open to it
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
It's no because the truth is not simple or pure but because it is too harsh for them.
[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I really like the early horror all the way into the pulp horror stuff like Lovecraft.
"The Great God Pan" shows one of the earlier instances of divorce rape I can think of. "She corrupted me, body and soul."
[–]ThePedanticF0x1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
That is because Oscar Wilde was inherently redpill.
[–]masturbates2Dragons1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Oscar Wilde was gay. Serious question: Does TRP still apply if your gay?
[–]recon_johnny3 points4 points5 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
To some, TRP is a higher level philosophy, unlike PUA. Women achieved are a byproduct of self improvement and realization.
Take of it what you will.
[–]Fartfacethrowaway1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Oscar Wilde is cool. Check out his grave and you'll see he gets more women as a dead man than most live men will ever get.
[–]LibertarianLibertine0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I've visited his grave, they renovated it and put a concrete block with wings on it.
However, there were still flowers on the grave, fresh flowers.
[–]waldener1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago* (3 children) | Copy Link
You do realize that Dorian Gray is a product of the Decadence Movement and about the degeneration of society? It is supposed to be the opposite of substance.
The quotes that you've picked are a reflection of that, not a positive philosophy.
Oscar Wilde even said that he was "not a worshiper at the Temple of Reason," and even warned against relying too much on the reason of men, compared to women.
In other words, this is a poor example of RP.
[–]wanderer7790 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
rather than building something, isn't RP about enjoying the decline of society?
Also, what type of life does reason lead us to, given the state of things?
[–]waldener0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
There are two ways to look at it. The less constructive faction of this sub is MGTOW-ish where they want to run off to a cabin in the woods and leave the rest of the world behind. The more productive faction-- that is still trying to break free from obsession with women, imo-- want to be successful men in society that improve their worth, knowledge, abilities etc. This becomes more productive especially when it is done not just to get sex.
In this way, it is actually the opposite of enjoying the decline-- men should be competitive and influential in adding value to society (see the stickied post).
Reason is a way to negotiate life, to make sense of things, and make decisions. The absence of reason is a world devolving, devoid of logic and sense-- which is what is depicted in Dorian Gray by flouting time itself. Reason is what makes us human. What do you mean by the state of things? We live in a time where reason and rationality in math, science, innovation and technology is at its peak. You have a phone in your pocket that can access the entirety of human knowledge. Are you going to spend your time upset about some random woman you bought a drink for who didn't take you home with her? Use your reason in a more productive way.
I'm not sure what you are talking with your comment about buying a woman a drink and taking her home. Maybe I am missing the connection there.
I think I was not straightforward enough in my reply. My thinking is, a man who tries to build a family is facing long odds and has little control on the outcome. He's liable to end up alienated from his children and paying his wife while she fucks other men. If he tries to build a business he's paying taxes and propping up the evil system we have. That's why a lot of guys look at the situation and decide that enjoying the decline is the option for them. It's not what I'm doing but I follow their logic
[–][deleted] 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
[deleted]
[–]LibertarianLibertine-1 points0 points1 point 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
The book is not really a story about being loyal... You do the math.
[–]circlhat0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Well written post, Sometimes its hard to really swallow the pill and realizing what we thought of as love is actually weakness, desperation, a attempt to provide consistency in your life. This is a automatic signal of failure and a huge beta tell.
Its really difficult to see at times because when you first meet a women looking for beta bucks things will go well and the sex will be great and you begin to think why not commit, she wants the same things I do.
You are both happy but she is not , females are so rooted in their emotion that they will blame you for their feelings, this is why we have the saying "Happy wife , Happy life"
If she is not excited and stimulated, she will make your life a living hell as is her right by nature.
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