An issue with MGTOW

TFCNU · 2015-06-11T02:31:32+00:00

I'll indulge you. There's a couple of things at play here. The traditionalist reason for the different treatment and the MGTOW response. First, our society says that the uterus is golden. It tells us that the greatest gift a woman can bestow on a man is sex. In that context, promiscuity, by increasing the supply of sex, lowers that value in the eyes of other men. A man engaging in sex is seen as receiving something not giving anything. Therefore his promiscuity cannot possibly reduce its value as it is already nil. This is at the heart of the traditionalist hypocrisy on this issue.

Today's culture means that women are constantly lowering their value through their promiscuity in the eyes of traditionalist men. This means that by riding the cock carousel they alienate the very men that would be most willing to act as a traditional husband and father. She's acting against her long term self-interest. I think a lot of MGTOW find humour in this. I don't see a lot of objections in the forum to women sleeping around in and of itself (who really wants an inexperienced partner who leaves blood on your dick?). The objection is to the "sleep around in your 20's, get married the minute I turn 30" fantasy that a lot of young women have. As for male promiscuity, MGTOW eschew long term relationships and commitments making promiscuity or abstinence the only choices. It would be inconsistent within MGTOW philosophy to criticize male promiscuity in that context.

machine_language · 2015-06-11T05:55:27+00:00

I don't think the notion of "riding the cock carousel" is as simple as you make it out to be.

I haven't observed this behaviour personally, but I've heard it described as follows:

1) Attractive woman in her 20s having "no strings" sex with "alpha" 99th percentile men.

2) These men are unlikely to turn down sex, and therefore the woman gets an inflated sense of what their SMV is.

3) As the woman gets older she realizes she is having difficulty attracting "alpha" men.

4) She finds a "beta" man that will pay her way through her life. She isn't actually attracted to this man, but she keeps him around because it means she doesn't have to work.

The fundamental difference at play here is, women are programmed to be attracted to 1% of men. Men are programmed to be attracted to 80% of women. This is confirmed by experiments done on dating sites, though these numbers are not exact.

Therefore at the end of day, the majority of men end up in "one-way" relationships, where the man has an attraction to the woman, and the woman is exploiting this attraction by withholding sex and affection in exchange for financial support. Essentially long term prostitution.

So, what you end up seeing on /r/mgtow is frustration. A young woman has no difficulty landing an attractive man for some frivolous sex, but for men it's immensely difficult unless you were born 7 feet 5 inches tall, and with a huge wiener.

So when a man can get some "no strings" sex it's seen as more of an accomplishment. They're "living like the 1%".

For women it's as easy as throwing yourself at the nearest man that you find attractive.

I'd ask that the mods not delete posts like this, this is legitimate criticism and it's worth talking about.

voraxs · 2015-06-11T01:39:27+00:00

What is the problem with using any phrase to anyone with a negative connotation? Is it only ok to call men pigs?

pirate6728 · 2015-06-11T02:02:42+00:00

Staring into my bowling ball (I never could get the idea that crystal balls actually work) I foresee a short life for this thread. Get your replies in early, I have a suspicion this will be gone by morning Chicago time.

In the meantime, let's see if I can get this 7-10 split. (Ball rolls down alley, breaks right. Doggone it, only got one.)

grasshopa · 2015-06-11T19:42:03+00:00

I tend to agree. If I'm truly "Going My Own Way", then what do I care what women do?

From a different perspective, if I'm GMOW, then why can't women go their own way as well? If "riding the cock carousal" makes them happy, who I am to say it's wrong?

nomnompuffs · 2015-06-11T02:10:49+00:00

I agree with you, OP.

I think that refusing to marry, and engaging in sex out of wedlock, then simultaneously casting aspersions on "riding the carousel" is inconsistent and incoherent. That is why I do not personally have casual sex.

However, there is also the fact that men and women were not created to be independent of one another, so naturally, if you don't get married, you still will yearn for sex. This is the way that people who are able to rationalize two irreconcilable positions, do so.

Thankfully, MGTOW is not a rigidly defined ideology, but a gathering of people who share a common set of woes. There is no requirement to be logically coherent when compared against a pre-determined moral compass.

crazydave1979 · 2015-06-11T13:28:34+00:00

I believe women came up with the terms "players" and "pigs" long before the phrase cock carousel..

oldredder · 2015-06-12T06:05:37+00:00

You are mixing us up.

Most men here don't care at all. One post does not make us all. It's the rarest of the rare.

Einen777 · 2015-07-02T18:59:13+00:00

For me personally I have no issues with women riding the CC. What upsets me is seeing them want to 'settle down' with a walking cash machine after the good years are gone.

Isaiah4verse1 · 2015-06-11T11:13:46+00:00

To be fair, I've mostly heard that term coming from PUAs.

ThetaOmega · 2015-06-11T18:00:37+00:00

I want to thank those of you who addressed the post. You gave me some things to think about, which was one of the points of this post.

Title	An issue with MGTOW
Author	ThetaOmega
Upvotes	0
Comments	53
Date	June 11, 2015 1:36 AM UTC (11 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MGTOW
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MGTOW/comments/39dna1/an_issue_with_mgtow/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MGTOW/an-issue-with-mgtow.626780 https://theredarchive.com/post/626780

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