Men of r/MGTOW, do you genuinely believe there are no good enough women for us, or you have simply given up trying to find “her”?

Knutjob · 2019-12-26T12:55:34+00:00

Hey, I honestly thought I found my life partner....damn, she was perfect. Fast forward 13 years and I got screwed over so badly I nearly lost my sanity...hell...maybe I did. Are there good women out there?? Maybe, but I for one am not going to risk looking again.

King_Yautja · 2019-12-26T13:10:23+00:00

I don't really think women are the problem. Not really. Most people are never all good or all bad 99.9% of us are a mixed bag of positive and negative traits. The way I see it we live in a system that has actively encouraged and enabled (and when acted on; enforced) a woman's worst impulses.

You can't honestly say in your entire life you've never had the impulse to hurt someone. Like really fuck them up. Even someone you love. Some really dark corner of your brain just wanted to strangle them. Did you act on that impulse? No, of course not. We're modern civilised people. You have a moral compass.

But we live in a society that is constantly telling women "Do it. Do it. Take his money. You deserve it. He deserves what he gets. You're strong and empowered. You can do anything. You deserve everything and you're God's gift to all men".

Are AWALT? Well, yes all women have negative impulses because all women are human, and the danger to us is that (unlike men) when she has spent her entire life being encouraged to act them out, and can do so knowing she has the full support of the state.

xxTriggerWarningxx · 2019-12-26T12:40:05+00:00

The time and money spent finding that "special someone" is just not worth it IMO, they could be out there or they could be an illusion. Either way, the chances are too slim and you're better off focusing on yourself and living your best life without placing all your hopes on someone else. I see this sub as one that promotes responsibility for yourself and taking control of your emotions and life; realizing that only you can and should be in control of your destiny, not some unicorn woman.

countinginsolitude · 2019-12-26T13:29:15+00:00

Very. very good question OP. I ask myself this daily, and i've been following MGTOW for a couple of years now. I can just say from experience: when I met my ex-girlfriend, who later became my fiancee, life was blissful - for about 2 months before I realised she had very deep, dark secrets - alledgedly been raped in her past, she was in contact with her ex, she was getting calls/texts from every tom, dick and harry, and we managed to resolve most of it, to the point where we got engaged. 7 years later she dumps me via text and jumps on Chad's dick BEFORE I'd even drove to meet her to get my stuff back. Yes, you read that right. She didn't dump me and move on - she fucked Chad, dumped me, then made me drive a 4-hour round trip to get my shit back off her.

The reason some men snap is because of shit like this. I was 100% loyal. I never physically cheated - although towards the end of the relationship, she kept encouraging me to message other women - probably to help her live with the guilt of what she was doing. But, that's what I tell myself. She was feeling so guilty, she was photographed cheating on me, with Chad and his kids (she cheated on me with a guy who had kids) and guess what she was wearing when she cheated? Her fucking engagement ring.

So, you might say "that's just one girl. Not all women are like that". Ask that to the 150,000 men on MGTOW's sub. It sure doesn't seem like a big......coincidence now does it? Maybe there's more to it? Maybe women's hypergamous nature has all led us to this point. Stick with us and make your own mind up my friend.

Fuxk1n · 2019-12-26T13:01:08+00:00

I think there probably is some women with strong father's than instill morals but I think that number is decreasing rapidly.

And

Even if you get your unicorn traditionalist Virgin who doesn't believe in multiple sexual partners and believes in loyalty and strong male role leadership.

It's just a matter of time before social programming gets her Netflix, Facebook Instagram, bumble, tinder, slutty friends, feminism, porn, abortion and she eventually gives into her hedonistic nihilistic ways. She's a unicorn until she's not.

A good women if they exist will eventually be broken down by society influence and for us men gambling it all on the whim of a woman's emotions is a terrible business deal. The way society is set up is to divide people so that the people in charge stay in charge. We are too busy chasing our tails to concentrate on them.

2019-12-26T13:04:17+00:00

Why do you people always pretend that child support and alimony don't exist? When every failed attempt results in lost money, why keep trying? When the woman always expects us men to pay on the first date, why keep having them? When a woman can cry rape the next morning because she feels she made a bad decision, why keep taking them to bed?

Women made themselves a bad investment. It's their fault we have left them all to fend for themselves. Women are just not worth it anymore.

GTOH4U · 2019-12-26T13:04:17+00:00

Of course there are good women, but as a man if you've got a lot to lose financially then it's a hell of a risk.

sootlord · 2019-12-26T13:23:31+00:00

I've give up entirely.

As someone who has dated/slept with a decent amount of women I can say for fact that they are all the same. No matter what you do, you will never trully be able to satisfy a woman 100%. One minute they like you and then just as fast they hate everything about you.

Media taught me that the BluePill script was the way. I spent almost a decade chasing the dragon, trying to find the figurative "One". After my last relationship ended I had a strong sensation that something isnt right and then I found TheRedPill and MGTOW and the answer finally revealed itself to me. Women aren't fragile creatures, they are just hoes. They don't appreciate good men.

Save yourself the heartbreak and go your own way.

RadicalAsceticMonk · 2019-12-26T13:35:58+00:00

Both.

I believe there's no woman that you could call "good" out there, because I came to the conclusion that women are biologically and socially incapable of genuineli loving men for what men are. They do love what men can do for them, or what men can provide to them. Never love what men are. So, it's a fruitless pursuit, unless, I suppose, you don't care about the nature of the "love" women are willing to provide you. For me, it happens to be important to know that I'm loved for what I am, not for what I can do or provide.

I am not resentful or necessarily blame women for that, btw. It's just what I think their nature is. I don't hate them for it, not any more I'd "hate" someone for having completely different interests and goals than I personally have. To each their own.

At the same time, even if I was willing to compromise and find a woman who will "love me for what I can do for her", it still seems a fruitless pursuit. Women at my age range are irreversibly damaged by at least two decades of bad choices. Younger women (slightly bellow my age range) are usually vapid and have nothing in common with me, so what would be the point? And women above my age range are spinsters/divorced hags with their own assortment of problems. And since I'm not getting any younger at the passing of the days, I can only see the options getting worse and worse. No thanks.

Fortunately, I realized a long time ago that the pursuit of women is not life's end goal, and that you can find happiness in myself and my own personal interests - it's surprisingly liberating get yourself free from "the pursuit" and enjoy life in its small, non-compromising scope.

BadWardrobe · 2019-12-26T13:05:38+00:00

Some women are better than others, of course, but in my experience they all like to cause drama - usually when you least expect it. The closer you get to them, the harder a fall you're setting yourself up for.

I like to keep my life as simple, ordered and hassle-free as possible. Women are the antithesis of that.

2019-12-26T14:00:27+00:00

I now believe there is no other woman good enough for ME. Take that as you will. After 12 or 13 occurances of the same thing, you tend to start to finally believe it.

theJackBurton13 · 2019-12-26T13:07:49+00:00

I don’t think they exist. However, if you have to try I think you would be better off looking in other countries. American women kind of disgust me at this point.

79johnsmith · 2019-12-26T13:15:49+00:00

Several layers to that:

#1. The laws, courts, and gynocentric society are so heavily misandric that for a man, the risk is extremely high verses any possible payoff (think of it like a lottery where instead of winning millions, the jackpot prize of getting all the numbers correct is only $10).

#2. It may be that there are a minutely small number of good women, but enough social conditioning has been applied to create so many bad ones which are indistinguishable from the good ones that it debases the whole (like Gresham's Law of bad (debased) coins chasing out good (unadulterated) coins).

#3. 'Love' is merely a cocktail of happy/feel-good chemicals that doesn't last. Studies have shown that the chemical levels (oxytocin, dopamine, etc) decrease significantly several years after the initial pair-bonding, and once those happy feelings go, for the relationship to maintain, it means putting in a lot of work.

2019-12-26T14:08:46+00:00

"True love" is bullshit, so you might as well rid yourself of that idea right away. We're all just utilities for eachother at the end of the day, and whatever emotions you have for another person (and that person has for you) is always based on a set of conditions. Once those conditions can no longer be fulfilled, or one party wants a change of conditions, then feelings (a.k.a. "love") change.

Human beings are serial-monogamous - and even somewhat polygamous - by nature. So the overarching trend of a commited relationship is always going to be one of a downwards spiral. Sure there can be ups and downs along the way, but the general trend is always downwards. At the very best, you end up with something 'tolerable' (tolerable due to external factors like having kids together, "cheaper to keep her" etc).

Women can be enjoyable, and they can have a lot to offer you in the way of life quality. But that is wholly dependent on the boundaries you've set for yourself. Women are not honour-bound. They are only as honourable as society forces them to be, so don't let yourself be bound by honour either - especially in a Western society. That would be a losing proposition.

As a man, you need to adapt to the new sexual market place. That means, don't hold on to your side of a bargain that stems from a patriarchal societal structure - because women have long since let go of their side of that bargain, and they never wanted it in the first place. You're not responsible for someone you don't rule over.

My personal framework is as follows:

I'm ok with being monogamous. I don't see that as a waste of time. I'm a man, I have plenty of time.
I'm ok with putting a "girlfriend/boyfriend" label on it. That's a fair commitment.
I'm ok with keeping appearances up (visiting family and friends on occasion). I get that you need that due to certain social (and innate) pressure/expectation.
I'm ok with having a long-term perspective. Until death do apart? Sure, we can try for that. But that's an ongoing process, not a one-time commitment (i.e. marriage and cohabitation).
I'm NOT ok with legal/financial/practical entanglement. Not going to happen. Accept it, or find someone else. My autonomy is the most valuable thing I have, and I wouldn't want to involve myself with someone who can't be an autonomous creature as well.
It's only my turn. You want to prove me otherwise? Then that's on you, not me. You prove that by not trying to push me into a provider role. No "one time commitment", because there's no such thing as relationship equity. I won't be reimbursed for making that commitment.
No marriage, no cohabitation, no kids, no owning expensive stuff together.
I'm always honest about my boundaries. They're not acceptable to you? Then I let you go. I'm always ready to let you go, and I won't make it hard for you to let me go either.

This framework has been working for me for about 18-19 months now. It's still very much an enjoyable relationship, and she treats me very well - we're good friends, good sex partners and a proper team. As long as it stays like that, I'm not going anywhere. But I'm under no illusion that it's going to last. I've already dodged the marriage ultimatum once, by practicing full disclosure of my views on that (which ended up with her apologising), but I shouldn't have to do it again.

At some point, this relationship is likely going to end with her not accepting my refusal to be placed in the provider/utility role, and she will want to leave. I get that, and it's totally fine because I'm not entangled in any way that's going to make that a shitty process. Although I care a lot about her, and would like for it to last on good terms, I'm treating this relationship as an ongoing experiment. Only time will tell when Briffault's Law strikes, and she starts seeing me as a lost cause rather than a challenge (which I suspect is the main mental process behind why she accepts my frame for now).

GreetingsFromErf · 2019-12-26T15:17:06+00:00

There might be a good woman out there. Here is the vetting criteria I would use to find her. Above all, you must be totally honest with her. Sometimes we aren't honest and it always comes back to bite us. This isn't really a vetting list as much as it is a list of standards you will keep. The vetting is in how much of this she will agree to.

1) Never subordinate yourself to a woman. This means never marry. She needs to know this and understand you are serious about it. The minute she starts angling for a legal commitment, it's over. Your commitment to her must always remain voluntary.

2) Make sure she understands that if she ever cuts off the sex, then you will have sex with other women. Better yet, find one that is OK with you having a side piece anyway.

3) You must maintain separate residences. Maybe as you grow together, you can let her stay over, but she never leaves a single item at your place. If she does, you throw it out. They do this as a form of incremental encroachment to claim your territory. Similarly, they never get to make a single decorating decision in your place.

4) Every time you date, the bill is split fairly. Not necessarily equally. If she is in the habit of ordering the lobster and a bottle of expensive wine while you have a burger and a coke, 50 50 isn't cutting it.

5) Every other list of red-pill red flags as well.

6) If you can find a girl who puts up with this for a solid decade, you may have found a keeper. If they are crazy, the can only hide it for so long.

That being said, I don't think you will find a woman in the current age to "put up" with this list. They are all way to entitled for that. They also lack enough empathy to understand why it is necessary for men today to even have such a list.

MiddleAgedMGTOW · 2019-12-26T14:39:39+00:00

I no longer believe “her” exists.

Bourbonandcigars06 · 2019-12-26T14:43:59+00:00

There may be few good women out there but the risk for many is overwhelming

As a guy that has done my own thing, invested in career, investments, 401k and home, it is too risky to give that away

The risks are too high for me. Knowing creature and intentions and entitlement when things don’t go their way, feel are entitled to what you have contributed and earned. This is true even with girlfriend. Her feelings cannot be reasoned with logic. They feel that they have contribution to your successes and career as well as your finances when in reality is not the case if they are not being taken out to dinner 4-5 times a week, buying them stuff when saying they don’t care about money, you are treating them like shit, false accusations are becoming common reality. This is not for me and easier to stay away from the creatures that can turn in an instant

I choose to preserve myself and what I have earned. I choose to be content and enjoy my life as I choose.

throwaway85176 · 2019-12-26T15:31:43+00:00

Even in a best case outcome with you finding a unicorn of a women who will be that partner you want her to be in every way, you will still be tethered unfree and a slave to her every whim. You will never realize your most potential and all your life decisions will be poisoned by her illogical motivations. You will fall short of the grandeur you could have accomplished and will only be an addition to her life, never owning your own soul and being a truly realized individual.

screeching-tard · 2019-12-26T15:48:12+00:00

MGTOW is the single most quality of life improving thing I've ever discovered. Once you know the true nature of women and society's way of manifesting it its eye opening (Like many things computers for instance, simple in concept but much more difficult once applied IRL.). Then you spend time learning the many tricks they use to implement their nature in personal relationships and society is the harder part that really explains why MGTOW exists.

The biggest is that women are not beings of logic, reason or strategy. The are emotional and this drives every aspect of their life from the ground up. It is not something they choose. It is biologically evolved as a survival mechanism and they can no more escape it than needing to breath oxygen to live. Some do learn to suppress it better than others but they are usually much older and therefore of little interest to a man looking for a partner.

DangZagnut · 2019-12-26T17:01:23+00:00

There’s no such thing as a “good woman” nor a “bad woman”.

They are what they are.

ThirstySasquatch · 2019-12-26T17:11:54+00:00

Considering nobody has found a unicorn, Id be willing to be they don't exist. Even the wealthiest, best looking, high status men can't keep women (Brad Pitt and other movie stars/athletes).

Even the guys who claim to be happily in a relationship usually aren't and are in complete denial. They to home to a nagging creature of a wife that won't ever let their resource sit down to relax or put any time into something that doesn't 100% benefit her. Everything going relatively well? Time for her to start an aimless arguement over absolutely nothing

veasel79 · 2019-12-26T19:31:45+00:00

It isn’t about “ good enough”. So called love has a expiration date, it may take awhile but it’s inevitable. You either end up in a ugly divorce or just living out your life with someone who resents you. Gone are the days of working through problems, compromise and over coming life’s problems together to build a family.

In today’s society with social media the moment you can’t continually make her happy she has at minimum 5 guys in her dms blowing smoke to her ass about “a better life” , and will likely end up balls deep, or guaranteed she has a gf who never found success in any relationship that will rip yours apart outta sheer envy.

So it’s not women aren’t “ good” or “worthy” in some way, it’s just simply no matter how much we’d probably all would’ve liked to have something meaningful it’s just not a reality.

🍻

RogueWon78 · 2019-12-26T21:40:43+00:00

There are great women in the world, and there are winning lottery tickets too. Your chances of getting either are remote. But unlike a lottery ticket, people are not static. The person who is amazing today, may be impossible to deal with over time. But unlike a casual girlfriend, a spouse has recourse to family law courts and can often take a great deal of your material wealth away as well as access to your children. The mistake critics of MGTOW often make is that they think finding exceptions to the rule is a persuasive argument. For example, "Hey, not EVERYONE who steals from the drug cartel is tortured to death" is not a good reason to attempt to steal from a drug cartel. In my state the divorce rate is 53%.

I'd never gamble years of income on a coin toss for something like "love." For one thing love and marriage are not necessarily related. Women who condition love on a legal relationship that just so happens to benefit them in case of dissolution are being extremely pragmatic. But when a guy points out the risks to him of being married or cohabiting, and the ever shrinking benefits, all sorts of head games take place. Those head games are increasingly less effective, especially as more and more women share their inner monologues on social media. Now that major newspapers are pushing "hall passes" for one's wife, the ONE benefit men could point to (even though it really hasn't been true for at least a couple of generations), i.e. sexual exclusivity and relatedly guaranteed paternity, is under attack. This will likely balance out as fewer and fewer women will find men willing to marry them on their schedule. Smart money says lease, don't buy. Smartest money says don't even lease, i.e. monk mode.

Ocjab · 2019-12-27T00:14:29+00:00

How about I crack this one open.

What do people always talk about to ease your feelings about getting married? They will tell you, "only" 50% get divorced. So they want to make you believe that 1 out of 2 marriages stick.

Let's analyze that sentence: 50% get divorced.

there are 2 flaws in that sentence.

First off, that research was based on successful marriages. But lets look at the definition of successful marriage in that research. It stated that a successful marriage was when the couple remained together for 20 years NOT until death! So if you get divorced after that, it wasn't taken into account of that 50% ... interesting ain't it, when you read the fine print.

Second flaw. What does that "50% get divorced" not say? If you get married, do you get married with the thought of NOT divorcing? Or do you get married to be HAPPY? Because let's be honest here, it's not like the other 50% means that those people are HAPPY. Where is the research on HAPPY rate?!?!? Why isn't that information released? Because it's fucking depressing! And marriage/divorce is a billion dollar industry so they will do whatever they can to hide those numbers.

There are many reasons why people don't divorce:

-for the kids;

-out of fear for losing everything; ( divorce rape )

-ending up on the street; ( time to monkey branch! )

-fear of the partner; ( domestic violence )

-comfort; ( beta buxxxxx )

-fear of being alone;

-...

and somewhere on the very bottom, you might find "actually happy"

So let me ask you after reading all of this, you still interested in getting married? You want to find "the one"? Or do you actually want to be happy NOW by accepting the game is rigged and doing something else with your life that you know will 100% give you fulfillment? You can try finding "the one" but trust me, that percentile of being happy is so abysmal and depressing. Lot's of men have already committed suicide because of it being so insignificant small. Get a dog, they will love you until the end of the world.

RiceballonRage · 2019-12-26T13:01:34+00:00

There are good women today, or they faking to be good today, right now. Tomorrow, anything goes.

Emoney0187 · 2019-12-26T14:48:55+00:00

It’s a risk for sure, but it could be worth it. I think all people have issues and if you are strong in your convictions and know what you want it’ll make it more likely you will find success. I’ve never had much success in finding that unicorn, but I’m open to it. I think there’s a lot of negative energy on this sub, mixed in with the good information.

D0p3y3 · 2019-12-26T16:16:13+00:00

I know I want kids and a family. To the point where for me it is worth the risk. Also I am a low maintanence type of guy so money isn't much of a priority since I always live below my means. On the other hand the culture I have grown up in divorces are very rare to non existant. None of my aunts, uncles, or cousins have divorced. I am talking a good 20 families most with 5-10 kids each. I have grown up in a church where everyone is like family and if you do divorce you are cast out into a world where you essentially lose the support of the church and all if its members. It's very hard to be successful at that point. Many church members are successful business owners. You can attribute that to the help of God.

Also, the couples must be virgins and save themselves till marriage. If they fail to do so they will likely stay single. If they do fail though at worst their body count is 1 or 2 not 20+ like in the current society.

I'll probably get some hate for this, but this sub has helped me tremendously in finding the right person.

nepane · 2019-12-26T17:52:37+00:00

I geniunly believe it. I’m middle aged and have enough experience with women to confirm it‘s all true: awalt, they see us only as providers etc etc

HatezWomenzCuzIncelz · 2019-12-26T22:10:44+00:00

"True love" is literally a literary ideal.

Midnightdon · 2019-12-28T03:22:12+00:00

Honestly I've been reading these threads on and off for about half a year. There are many things about MGTOW that I actually agree with but I cant say that I agree with everything. That being said, it's all a matter perspective really. There's someone out there for everybody they just gotta find you. For example rn I'm in a relationship that's going pretty well with this girl for a year now. We have so much in common, she's just as chill as me, and she isn't a cancerous woman like how y'all be talking about. She actually gives me peace. Ik things don't last forever so that's why I wanna make as many memories with her as possible. Ik the days coming where it could end but that doesn't mean I'ma give on finding "her".

Title	Men of r/MGTOW, do you genuinely believe there are no good enough women for us, or you have simply given up trying to find “her”?
Author	fineburi
Upvotes	5
Comments	51
Date	December 26, 2019 12:34 PM UTC (6 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MGTOW
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MGTOW/comments/efuxy8/men_of_rmgtow_do_you_genuinely_believe_there_are/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MGTOW/men-of-rmgtow-do-you-genuinely-believe-there-are.644273 https://theredarchive.com/post/644273

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