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Ladies and gentlemen, I present to you, an actual news article based on whether or not Women should be eligible for a military draft. Success of this would mean the first area of true gender equality - but as the article says, "US women may soon achieve a level of equality not everyone wants".

Keronisin

June 8, 2021
73 upvotes
/r/MensRights
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-52274164
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Title Ladies and gentlemen, I present to you, an actual news article based on whether or not Women should be eligible for a military draft. Success of this would mean the first area of true gender equality - but as the article says, "US women may soon achieve a level of equality not everyone wants".
Author

Keronisin

Upvotes 73
Comments 37
Date June 8, 2021 8:58 AM UTC
(5 years ago)
Subreddit Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/nv0c1k/ladies_and_gentlemen_i_present_to_you_an_actual/
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/ladies-and-gentlemen-i-present-to-you-an-actual.826667
https://theredarchive.com/post/826667
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Comments

[–]Lasttoflinch 20 points21 points22 points 5 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

"Feminism is life affirming. Women and children suffer disproportionately through war around the globe. One's equality shouldn't be based on acquiescence, submission to the military."

Can't suffer if one's dead.

[–]duhhhh 24 points25 points26 points 5 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

"Women have always been the primary victims of war. Women lose their husbands, their fathers, their sons in combat." - Hillary Clinton

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/hillary-clinton-victims-of-war/

[–]LiberalCombatVet 8 points9 points10 points 5 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

I like Hillary but in this case stfu please. It's clear the guy that gets killed in combat has it worse. How are the women mourning the dead guy the bigger victim? That's completely asinine.

[–]lasciate 17 points18 points19 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Why would you like her when she thinks stuff like that and wanted to be Commander-in-Chief?

[–]ThisIsUrIAmUr 7 points8 points9 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

You might like her but she don't like you

[–]screamingolive 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

i agree.

[–]SamaelET 15 points16 points17 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

"Feminism is life affirming"

This is why we always see feminists to fight against male draft and conscription.

This is why we never see feminists fighting against male health plans or funding for male charities.

[–]Lasttoflinch 10 points11 points12 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

The hypocrisy of such institutional feminism knows no bounds.

[–]LiberalCombatVet 12 points13 points14 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Hey they want equality right? Welcome to what real equality looks like.

[–]OperativeTracer 8 points9 points10 points 5 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

Women have proven themselves in combat before. There was evidence of female Viking Warriors, Russian women were combat pilots, tank crews, and snipers and marksman. Vietnamese women fought against the US in the NVA and Vietcong. And even Chinese women fought during their Taipang rebellion.

The arguments against women in combat can be easily answered. So let's go through some:

1: Women can't handle it: If that were true, examples such as the above wouldn't exist.

2: Women are physically weaker: On average this is true. However, we aren't fighting using spears and swords anymore. Physical strength isn't as important as it was during the Medieval Ages. A women using a gun is just as deadly as a man with a gun.

3: I don't want to bet my life on a woman pulling my 200 pound ass: And yet, women have been serving as military combat medics for a long time, but I don't see people bring that up.

I suspect that people don't want women in combat because they are "incapable", but rather because we as a society don't like the idea that women can kill.

[–][deleted] 13 points14 points15 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I'm perfectly fine with the idea of women fighting, killing and dying instead of men.

[–]lasciate 3 points4 points5 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

2: Women are physically weaker: On average this is true. However, we aren't fighting using spears and swords anymore. Physical strength isn't as important as it was during the Medieval Ages. A women using a gun is just as deadly as a man with a gun.

There's more to being a soldier than just shooting things. There's more to gear than just a gun. Sometimes you have to carry your fellow soldiers, too.

3: I don't want to bet my life on a woman pulling my 200 pound ass: And yet, women have been serving as military combat medics for a long time, but I don't see people bring that up.

Yeah I'd assume they have men to do the heavy lifting and weren't hauling people off the combat front themselves in any case. I wouldn't want to rely on a woman having a helper handy to haul my ass to safety and potentially tying up two soldiers instead of one. Instead of assuming it's not an issue, ask why you haven't heard it raised. After all, those 200 pounds don't float through the air just because you haven't heard someone raise the issue before.

I suspect that people don't want women in combat because they are "incapable", but rather because we as a society don't like the idea that women can kill.

More like society doesn't want to see women get killed or, considering the enemies America's been fighting for the past few decades, get raped and killed. But if we're being honest with ourselves, female troops would almost certainly be held back from situations of heavy fighting in any serious conflict.

I remember a story of a female soldier getting captured in Iraq and the media went absolutely insane and extraordinary effort and resources were committed by the military to recover her asap.


All that being said I'm all for mandatory inclusion of female troops in all front line combat units. That way they'll never be used. I don't want Americans dying for nothing and if women putting skin in the game is what makes that happen then that's fine with me.

[–]ThreeTimesUp 1 point2 points3 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

... but rather because we as a society don't like the idea that women can kill.

More likely that as a society, we feel a greater sense of loss when a woman is killed, and thus have a tendency for not liking to see them put in harms way.

[–]HPUnicorn 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I think it was said during the vietnam war that "If we want to end this war we have to find a way for those body bags to be filled with women"

[–]Lion_amongst_gods 4 points5 points6 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

We want equality! But not that kind of equality...

[–]ThisIsUrIAmUr 2 points3 points4 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

"level of equality not everyone wants" -- rofl nobody wants equality. They want what's best for their own interests.

[–]AdikaHUN0328 -4 points-3 points-2 points 5 years ago (21 children) | Copy Link

Women are not as effective soilders as men. Wars have to be won and they are not equality friendly.

[–]Keronisin[S] 13 points14 points15 points 5 years ago (16 children) | Copy Link

And yet, if Women were to be drafted, it'd be completely equal (At least to a level we can achieve without genetic engineering), no?

[–]LiberalCombatVet 10 points11 points12 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

In Israel women fight and in the USA they are in support roles already. Draft them same as men .

[–]AdikaHUN0328 -1 points0 points1 point 5 years ago (14 children) | Copy Link

No teams that have women are less effective. More likely to get injured that is it. Women and men are inherently different. If you want i can link a video where a guy explains it in a more professional matter.

[–]d_nijmegen 12 points13 points14 points 5 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

It has worked before, just make them all female. And give them a job their weaknesses aren't that much of a problem. A woman machine gunner can do equal damage

[–]EvilLothar -3 points-2 points-1 points 5 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

And that machine gun is going to magic itself into position?

[–]d_nijmegen 3 points4 points5 points 5 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

You consider women so weak they can't carry a gun? Send one or two extra to carry them. They can shoot vehicle mounted weapons, drive heavy equipment and fly no problem.

A ak47 doesn't lose its sting in the hands of a woman.

Sure a man is more effective per person. But a large group of women can fight like hell seen in ww2, so proof is easy to find

[–]HPUnicorn 1 point2 points3 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

OK< please just stop.

Ex Military here, there is also a shit ton of gear to lug around and sometimes for a very long distance.

[+]urgentsonex13501 points 5 years ago* [recovered] (2 children) | Copy Link

A squad machine gun and the 7.62mm ammunition needed to feed it is considerably heavier than the combined weight of all the squad 5.56mm ARs and their ammo. The ammo belts for the MG are also spread amongst the other members of the squad to reduce the strain on the gunner whilst on the move on foot

The squad gunner just doesn’t sit in one position whilst others are running around. The gunner also has to move and advance with the others. This is why they pick the biggest guy of the squad to specialise as gunner.

I have seen it over and over. Every time women are mixed with men in exercises, then the team becomes less effective catering to the weakest link - the women. They are just not strong enough, agile And if one is unlucky enough to engage in hand to hand They are effectively dead.

There are people here commenting who have absolutely no idea about the reality on the ground.

[–]d_nijmegen 1 point2 points3 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

So put them on fucking guard duty, I dont care. But put them in, so we can end this foolishness

[–]Keronisin[S] 3 points4 points5 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

No, I know that it's not 100% completely gender equal and it was as though gender didn't even exist, and I know why it isn't so, I'm just saying it would be our best bet with our current technology.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

They can work as meat shield in low ranks in masses. And men can be put on better roles fitting their capabilities.

[–]Safe-Nerve5939 1 point2 points3 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I'll take prison

[–]OperativeTracer 1 point2 points3 points 5 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Women have proven themselves in combat before. There was evidence of female Viking Warriors, Russian women were combat pilots, tank crews, and snipers and marksman. Vietnamese women fought against the US in the NVA and Vietcong. And even Chinese women fought during their Taipang rebellion.

The arguments against women in combat can be easily answered. So let's go through some:

1: Women can't handle it: If that were true, examples such as the above wouldn't exist.

2: Women are physically weaker: On average this is true. However, we aren't fighting using spears and swords anymore. Physical strength isn't as important as it was during the Medieval Ages. A women using a gun is just as deadly as a man with a gun.

3: I don't want to bet my life on a woman pulling my 200 pound ass: And yet, women have been serving as military combat medics for a long time, but I don't see people bring that up.

I suspect that people don't want women in combat because they are "incapable", but rather because we as a society don't like the idea that women can kill.

[–]calmly86 1 point2 points3 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

It’s not about society being uncomfortable with women killing but rather women being killed, or, worse to them, raped if captured.

Modern western society would rather allow a dozen men to die than one woman to be raped (and still live).

[–]SamaelET 9 points10 points11 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

If men have more duties, they should have more rights.

[–]Accomplished_GoalY 3 points4 points5 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Effectiveness in a war is only as good as the economic output of a country, and we're already way beyond the point of reducing optimizing that in favor of equality. Your premise makes no sense.

If there was such a dire motivation to win, especially in a conflict scenario we wouldn't have affirmative action in business in favor of women, and gender quotas. There isn't a dire need. We haven't had this for decades. Most superpowers have nuclear weapons, yet have elected to not use them and reduce their combat effectiveness for ethical pursuits, this is no different.

As it stands now, 1% of men who should be alive today have been casualties of war. Women's absolute unappreciated privilege of not having to experience this needs to die.

Going forward women absolutely need to comprise 70%+ of front line combat roles, die, and be injured just like men. This must go on for ~2000 years at present casualty rates to pay reparations for what men have had to endure just in current lifetimes.

Society has clearly decided equalizing situations takes precedence over maximal winning. Making this one sided cannot be allowed to stand.

[–]LiberalCombatVet 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

How dumb are you? They can do the same support roles like they do now if they get drafted. Examples: Truck Driver, Mechanic, Nurse, Doctor, Supply, etc.

[–]HPUnicorn 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I read that supreme court decision in 1981 that rejected women for the draft because (paraphrasing) "They aren't eligible for all roles"

In My Legal Expert Opinion that was nothing more than "We don't want women to be required to register for the draft so we have to find an excuse, please find us one dear law clerks"

[–]screamingolive 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

i’m still so lost on how that policy hasn’t changed.

[–]CataclystCloud 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

"If feminists got true equality they would fucking hate it" -Some Greek or Asian philosopher or something fuck if I know I failed history

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