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[+]gprime1 points [recovered] (8 children) | Copy Link
People are dealing with the consequences...just not in a way that you find acceptable, which seems like a "you" problem.
No, what you seem to forget is that there is broad disagreement on when the cluster of cells attains personhood to which legal rights attach. You seem to believe it is at conception, which is a fair enough position to take. But for people who don't share that view, then the "unborn child" is not a victim, but the man who faces legal and financial jeopardy for two decades very well could be.
[–]CertainCrow1 0 points1 point2 points (7 children) | Copy Link
[+]gprime1 points [recovered] (5 children) | Copy Link
Or because they have a legitimate disagreement with you. Somewhere around 20% of pregnancies end in miscarriage before the 20th week, and the actual number is almost certainly higher, because some occur so early on that the "mother" wouldn't even know she'd been pregnant. And even setting that aside, it isn't as if at conception there is a heart beat, brain activity, a capacity for pain, or viability outside of the womb. So it is perfectly reasonable to assign "life," at least in a way that carries legal meaning, as beginning at some point further down the line. And for those of us who don't believe life begins at conception, your entire argument falls apart.
And you're also sparing it the pain and suffering that in an unavoidable part of the human experience.
[–]CertainCrow1 0 points1 point2 points (4 children) | Copy Link
[+]gprime1 points [recovered] (3 children) | Copy Link
False. You have concluded that life begins at conception, and thus regard further discussion as pointless. For those of us who do not share your extreme position, which would be a majority of Americans, it is very much a relevant question to pose, and one to which several reasonable answers can be given.
In excess of 20% (because again, the 20% number is based on KNOWN miscarriages, and thus excludes the many that happen to early to be realized) is not "a small chance." Those odds are worse than Russian Roulette, which I'm guessing is an activity far too risky for you to engage in. In any case, I don't give a shit what YOU are cool with. Your moral calculus does not and should not drive law for 330 million people. You can oppose abortion as fervently as you like. Indeed, if I shared your foundational premise that life began at conception, then I too would be vehemently anti-abortion. But, since I would argue that personhood begins at birth, I favor unlimited abortion rights in the long term. (In the short term, I would be on board with a 100% ban on abortion except to save the life of the mother, because I think that kind of tactical hardball is the best way to win men the right to the paper abortion.)
[–]CertainCrow1 0 points1 point2 points (2 children) | Copy Link
[+]gprime1 points [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link
We're asking a philosophical/legal question, so science cannot ever answer it. All science can do it provide us data that assists in answering that question, i.e. when there is a heart beat.
How could it not be? If we could definitively say that X is the start of life, then preventing X is manifestly different from reacting to X. Your position, taken to its logical extreme, would at a minimum argue against the use of any form of contraception, since without it any heterosexual vaginal intercourse has the potential to end in the creation of life. Hell, it could even be taken further and said to suggest that since wasting sperm and eggs, both potential elements of a future life, is so lamentable, we should have mandatory breeding.
That may be. But I am not convinced that the law should be a tool to impose morality and to socially engineer people into "good" life choices. Lots of people would benefit from eating a healthier diet or not smoking, but I don't want government telling people they can't eat 5 chocolate bars a day and smoke two packs of unfiltered cigarettes.
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