The meaning of morality for women

asteadyheart · 2016-05-03T23:30:04+00:00

As a former student of philosophy, I believe that any moral obligations an individual has rises out of whatever is in their capabilities. You cannot expect a starving person to have the moral burden of feeding others.

In the case of women, I think we have our limits (just as men have their limits) and we have our strengths. In my eyes, a woman who is a wife and a mother has the moral obligation to build up her family and not tear it down. She must honor her family name (this view comes from my Asian background), she must look after her children, and she must support her spouse when all others may fall to the side.

Does she have a moral obligation to care for someone else's child at the cost of her own? Does she have a moral obligation to support or to care for someone at the cost of her own family, her marriage? I don't think she does.

I don't often hold fictional or historical figures as a benchmark, since I think the very best ones (in history) are the ones that are not remembered. I find Jane Eyre to be a good inspiration, but even she has her limits. I always keep in mind that we can never achieve our ideals of morality, but that we should strive forward anyway.

The very nature of humanity lies in our flaws.

maya_elena · 2016-05-02T07:04:01+00:00

My own favorites from literature: "If", by Rudyard Kipling (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/If%E2%80%94) is one of my favorite poems and a great statement of morality that I try to live by, if not always successfully.

For female characters, I like Dagny Taggart in Atlas Shrugged, Elizabeth Bennett and Jane Eyre (and I used to think they were opposites too!), Margarita from Mikhail Bulgakov's "The Master and Margarita".

I've also always liked the concept of someone being so competent that the rules don't apply to them. You can see this in books like Foundation (Isaac Asimov) and MASH: A Novel About Three Army Doctors (Richard Hooker). The heroes in these are men though.

plein_old · 2016-05-02T06:33:54+00:00

I've come to the conclusion that Hollywood isn't necessarily in the business of promoting morally strong women characters - or morally strong men characters either for that matter.

Hey this might offend some people but I'm enjoying learning about Miss Kay Robertson (from "Duck Dynasty", and the books the family members have written). She stood by her husband when he was going through a tough time, and he credits her strength and her values for helping make him the man he is today. And also credits her for their ability to raise their children. That might not sound like much of an accomplishment, but I think maybe it is, in this world. They seem to have a strong happy family. I'll see if I can think of other examples...

plein_old · 2016-05-02T14:41:34+00:00

Another amazingly strong woman is the young wife in part 3 of the Apu Trilogy by Satyajit Ray.

Living in a traditional society in India, she is deferential to her husband, but she's also incredibly courageous in a feminine way. She ends up leading her husband, in a sense, just through her example - rather than through complaining or telling him what to do or whatever.

Then of course she dies suddenly and her husband goes back to being a weak confused person. haha.

aanarchist · 2016-05-02T07:40:44+00:00

something tells me you know all the answers to your questions. morality and honor isn't a consensus, it's an absolute, black and white, truth.

look up a book called universally preferable behavior, by stefan molyneux. it takes abstract concepts like virtue and puts it through the empirical conveyor belt.

i'd dare argue that empathy is a man's domain. more women than men behave in a sociopathic manner.

i_have_a_semicolon · 2016-05-04T00:48:52+00:00

Very odd question. You see, growing up, when I learned about "great men" I learned about them under the presumption that women were equals to men. So clearly, when tales of honor and nobility were told, I clung to these ideas as well as they resonated with me - not because of my sex, but because I believed that it was just part of being human.

But in every other sphere of our lives, should we not also seek to be better people in general? And what does that mean for a woman?

I think the answer for me is "not much different from a man's, but..." I think there are a few exceptions...

These go without saying: "integrity, courage, rationality, self-awareness, and dedication to personal values "

of course that should be part of a woman's domain, as this is what it means to be human. It puts us apart from animals. It makes us great. Why would we not strive for this?

But, if you're asking specifically for female/male ideals, I can think of a few.

For one, women should be supportive of their loved ones. I also think males should be supportive for their loved ones, but the extent to which can vary. For instance, I believe women should be asking themselves more often then men, "Is he happy? Am I satisfying him?" Of course, if she is asking this, it means that the boyfriend is also doing his part in making her want to satisfy him.

One thing that seperates males and females is that males are more willing to die (in war or otherwise) than females. This hurts women too, of course, not to the extent of men, but it is a trade off due to our biological differences. Men are bigger and stronger, women are better at taking care of children. Thus, this is why men are not only instilled with a sense of nobility, but also a sense of dedication to the point of even death. Often women will think "for the good" of the family and avoid death as much as possible, as it is better for children to be raised by one parent than by none.

These are generalizations of course. I find that due to the corrupt reality of civilization, it is not always "worth it" to be a glimmering example of virtue. Why for instance not break dumb laws which interfere with your ability to pursue happiness? Thinking, marijuana for one. So even us women who value honor etc, we are just as inclined as any man to put it to the way side if we are not being treated "justly" or "fairly" by the system. Why must we compromise on us - our one short life - because someone out there said not to do it ? If the action doesnt hurt anyone, whats so bad about it?

Anyway, random disjointed thoughts. TLDR Most virtues which apply to men apply to women. Few differences exist based on sex alone. Being virtuous isn't the best strategy for happiness and doesn't make sense today.

scallopkid · 2016-05-02T06:53:52+00:00

Red Pill information is amoral - it is just information. You can use it towards whatever goals you want based on whatever moral system you have.

I don't believe there is any single, objective morality. At least, I've never seen any evidence for one. We as humans have certain general moral concepts that we tend to develop since they promote behavior that is good for building societies. We value integrity [in other people] because it allows us to trust [them](edited for clarity), and not having to be defensive/on the lookout for trickery allows us to be more productive. So I don't think people have an obligation to be honorable, but doing so is how you keep similar people in your life, and happy to be there. It's a good strategy.

I don't really like the word honorable, because it does have some sense of being a masculine virtue. I think the feminine counterparts to these concepts would be kindness, loyalty, common sense to avoid creating difficulties and extra work, keeping up with self care so that you are prepared if you need to put someone else before yourself, not so much strength as endurance (mentally). For fiction examples from Harry Potter and the Hunger Games, I think Hermione is a good example vs. Katniss is not so great.

TrueFacets · 2016-05-11T10:12:41+00:00

Often women find these characteristics and values in men attractive because they are shown by strong attractive men.

Moral is an invention of Humanity. Laws and Moral Codes were invented so we can live together without killing each other too quickly.

Courage, Honor and the romanticition of "Sacrifice for a Cause/Group" is used in Real Life to form strong bonds and group membership feelings in the Military, in Countries (by our forefathers) and in a lot of other places...

It is effective to work as a group. Throughout history ever larger groups pushed to power until there were empires and countries.

For the Individual Man however, you should be the one forming and controlling a group not the one fighting in it.

Honor and Courage and Integrity and the fight for a "good" cause are effective because if you indoctrinate a group with it, they will fight to the death for your cause.

America and the west somehow managed to give their population an ok life and at the same time exploit all the other folks on the planet, all under the guise of honor, freedom and courage. We are the good guys right ? And guess what we ARE THE GOOD GUYS. The mistake lies in the thought that world peace is possible. It is not! So we have to win.

Title	The meaning of morality for women
Author	maya_elena
Upvotes	25
Comments	24
Date	May 2, 2016 5:26 AM UTC (10 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/RedPillWomen
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/RedPillWomen/comments/4hemgx/the_meaning_of_morality_for_women/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/RedPillWomen/the-meaning-of-morality-for-women.86155 https://theredarchive.com/post/86155

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