Do you believe coercion is a form of sexual assault/sexual violence?

redpilling1993 · 2019-09-26T06:30:40+00:00

No more than if you don't marry me, I'll leave you. That's extortion. Call the cops, because it happens every day.

MalusMalorum · 2019-09-26T08:40:16+00:00

In Germany, threatening someone with what we call a "empfindliches Übel", which seems to be treated as a disadvantages significant enough to be perceived as a motivating threat, to get them to perform a sex act or let it be performed on them is part of the legal definition of rape, just saying.

While it was part of the 2016 reform of the paragraph which I think has some questionable aspects, I think moving this from simple coercion to sexual coercion / sexual assault / rape is not a bad thing.

I had something like that being portrayed in an audiobook yesterday - sympathetically to the person doing it. That really rubbed me the wrong way and I immediately returned the book after that.

So, while I never was in that situation, I now can definitely say how much the idea of such a thing being condoned pisses me off...

iainmf · 2019-09-26T08:02:23+00:00

What do you think distinguishes seduction from coercion?

Eastuss · 2019-09-26T08:58:37+00:00

Coercion is when you consent to sexual activity with someone who blackmailed you, threatened you, and it implies that this person has power over you.

Your definition makes it possible that expecting sex in your relationship and marriage is foundation for coercive rape.

xNOM · 2019-09-26T09:15:36+00:00

Definition if anyone needs it: unwanted sexual activity that happens when you are pressured

not coercion

, tricked,

not coercion

threatened,

coercion

or forced in a non-physical way.

coercion

Examples: being worn down by being repeatedly asked

not coercion

, being lied to or promised false things to trick you,

not coercion

having someone threaten to end the relationship or spread rumors, etc.

not coercion

summonblood · 2019-09-26T10:37:04+00:00

Just FYI, coercion actually does include physical force:

“the practice of persuading someone to do something by using force or threats”

ThePigmanAgain · 2019-09-26T13:08:49+00:00

"Definition if anyone needs it: unwanted sexual activity that happens when you are pressured, tricked, threatened, or forced in a non-physical way. Examples: being worn down by being repeatedly asked, being lied to or promised false things to trick you, having someone threaten to end the relationship or spread rumors, etc."

Yes, that is sexual assault. Duh.

2019-09-29T08:18:28+00:00

Those are just words, for some interpretation of those words, yes. But saying something is "sexual violence" or "sexual assault" has legal connotations, and I want to address that because I believe that legal and institutional involvement should be wary of nuance and generally avoid inserting itself in people's interpersonal relationships.

Threats are illegal and should be illegal. Regardless of what you're trying to force the person to do. However this only applies when you are threatening to do something illegal against the person (e.g. physical harm, vandalism). For other kinds of threats it's more difficult to judge, but generally speaking, I don't think there should be a distinction between threat used to extort money and threats used for sexual favors. So, give me 200$ or I won't go visit your parents with you this weekend like I promised should be legal just as much as have sex with me or I won't go visit your parents with you this weekend.

"Pressure" should practically never be considered illegal. If you don't like someone pressuring you into something, then don't hang out with them. If someone is "pressuring" you repeatedly while you are doing your job (so you can't get away from them) or you are in a public place that you have every right to be (e.g. a public park), then that is not "pressure" it is harassment, and that is rightfully illegal in most places.

Tricked depends on the trick and the relationship. If the "trick" has no real permanent ramifications other than embarrassment and it is with someone you have a relationship with, then it can range from perfectly harmless fun, to totally dickish move. But no institution should have a right to interfere or act based on this behavior.

Generally speaking, if you are in any kind of personal relationship with someone (even if it's just because you've been flirting with them for 10 minutes), the bar for when institutions should get involved should be much, much higher.

So, if someone gets drunk, flirts with a girl at a club and ends up being too handsy, the club has every right to kick his ass out and ban him forever. But his employer shouldn't be allowed to punish him for it

Speaking of the club thing, there should also be some consideration for creating a sexually charged atmosphere. Like, I wouldn't hold it against a girl that I've never me if she were to grab my ass at a hookup club. If this were to happen regularly at that club, I would no longer go to that club. If I actually cared about the club, I might tell the club owners so that the girl(s) involved would get banned. But her employer or any authority should not be informed and if they were informed it should be illegal for them to retaliate or negatively react based on that information.

thowaway_throwaway · 2019-09-26T12:20:47+00:00

Everything is 'manipulation'.

Whether it's wrong depends on whether you had the right to make the threat. "Sleep with me or I'll get you fired" - you don't (or shouldn't) have the right to try and get someone fired for no real cause. "This relationship isn't going to work out if you're not interested in sex" is perfectly fine - you have every right to walk out of a relationship that's not working for you.

OscarAlexHasEntered · 2019-09-26T12:47:15+00:00

Only blackmail. If it’s ‘fuck me or I’ll kill your dog’ then yeah, but if it’s just asking multiple times, then no.

liztu_june · 2019-09-29T03:40:57+00:00

Yes but we need nationally agree definition before we can do anything about it. It kinda like how some women think it sexaul haressment for a man to appouch her without singling none verbally that she what's to be appouch haressment.

goodmod · 2019-09-26T11:43:07+00:00

Some of these definitions of coercion seem to depend on the degree to which they are carried out.

being worn down by being repeatedly asked

I don't think that being asked twice or even three times with a reasonable time gap between requests could be regarded as coercion. However, being repeatedly asked every five seconds for a whole night would amount to coercion by psychological abuse.

The dividing line would be somewhere between these two extremes, and would vary according to the circumstances.

having someone threaten to end the relationship

Again, this depends on the circumstances. If someone entered a relationship with the expectation that sex would be a regular part of it, then the lack of sex would be an acceptable reason for ending it. Telling a partner that you would leave if your needs aren't met is a legitimate type of communication in itself.

As above, though, taking this to an unreasonable extreme would be psychological abuse.

Threatening to spread rumours or revenge porn is definitely coercion to my mind.

being lied to or promised false things to trick you

I can't think of a reliable general rule for this. It's something that would have to be judged case by case.

Mackowatosc · 2019-09-26T11:51:38+00:00

Yes. Emotional manipulation for any reason is a very definition of abuse, for a very good reason. Coercion is a form of manipulation.

Title	Do you believe coercion is a form of sexual assault/sexual violence?
Author	butterfingingbitches
Upvotes	4
Comments	41
Date	September 26, 2019 5:47 AM UTC (6 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/d9ffxh/do_you_believe_coercion_is_a_form_of_sexual/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/do-you-believe-coercion-is-a-form-of-sexual.868282 https://theredarchive.com/post/868282

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