Can someone explain to me how mens rights is an issue?

problem_redditor · 2019-07-14T12:37:50+00:00

Feminists constantly quote the lack of women in higher positions and average higher pay for men to attempt to prove that men are the privileged ones. But this is not the only way of looking at it, or measuring gender inequalities. If one were to use combat fatalities, workplace deaths or conviction rates, one would see that men would be a lot worse off in that regard.

Let me list out a bunch of ways in which men are disadvantaged around the world.

Men throughout history have been, and in some places still are, subjected to social and legal pressure to fight in war. When it comes to conflict fatalities, men are in fact far more vulnerable to victimization than women, with a 1.3 to 10 times higher likelihood of death. Yet this fact of male victimhood has garnered little attention to date.
Prevailing gender stereotypes also have deadly consequences for men, be it through forced recruitment and death as a soldier or through ‘pre-emptive’ executions of non-combatants of ‘battle age’ — as happened in Srebrenica. Non-combatant males are denied civilian status (and hence protection), as is currently happening at the Syrian-Jordanian border where the government of Jordan has refused entry to single male refugees.
Men get a longer sentence for the same crime. A new study by Sonja Starr, an assistant law professor at the University of Michigan, found that men are given much higher sentences than women convicted of the same crimes in federal court. The study found that men receive sentences that are 63 percent higher, on average, than their female counterparts. Females arrested for a crime are also significantly more likely to avoid charges and convictions entirely, and twice as likely to avoid incarceration if convicted.
Males are circumcised. The practice of male circumcision in African countries is downright deadly. A recent report by South Africa’s Commission for the Promotion and Protection of the Rights of Cultural, Religious and Linguistic Communities calculated that in the Eastern Cape and Limpopo provinces alone at least 419 boys have died since 2008, and more than 456,000 initiates have been hospitalised with complications. Urologists describe seeing patients whose penises have become so infected and gangrenous they literally drop off.
Men have comparatively few resources when it comes to domestic violence, despite some studies showing that over 40% of domestic violence victims are men. The Duluth Model of domestic violence assumes that men are aggressors and women are victims. In line with this, there are a lack of DV services for male victims, and police and other officers of the court have been trained to automatically identify the man as the primary aggressor.
Certain countries such as Afghanistan practice bacha bazi, which translates as 'boy play'. It is on the surface a harmless form of entertainment - young boys dancing for the entertainment of their elders. The boys are trained as dancers, made to perform to groups of men dressed as girls, bells on their flowing skirts and make up on the faces. Then the boys are passed between the men, taken to hotel rooms where they can be sexually abused.
Male rape is being used systematically in Libya as an instrument of war and political domination by rival factions, according to multiple testimonies gathered by investigators. Years of work by a Tunis-based group and witnessed by a journalist from Le Monde have produced harrowing reports from victims, and video footage showing men being sodomised by various objects, including rockets and broom handles.
Young boys are brought to a town in Pakistan (called Shahrag) for the sole purpose of sexually abusing them. They are used as sexual partners by mature coal miners — these boys are either unable to say no to unwanted advances or need the cash offered in exchange for providing sexual services.
Thousands of men and boys have been killed by Boko Haram in north-eastern Nigeria. Those who survived the mayhem, often men and boys of fighting age, have been captured and taken to Boko Haram bases, to be trained as fighters or to serve as Boko Haram members, taken to Sambisa forest and other remote areas, never to be heard of again. In an Oxfam protection survey with communities affected by violence done last year, people reported 41% more killings of men and boys by Boko Haram than of women and girls; and the number is even higher among adults, with 77% more men killed than women.
In the fight against Boko Haram, men and boys have in fact been directly targeted by the military. Since 2009 the Nigerian military forces have arbitrarily arrested over 20,000 people, mostly young men and boys without reasonable suspicion and adequate investigation. Most of the detainees did not have access to family or lawyers, and experienced torture while in military detention. Amnesty International also reported that over 7,000 men and boys have died while in detention as a result of “overcrowding, starvation, dehydration and disease”. In addition, 1,200 men have lost their lives through extrajudicial execution.

Are these problems faced by men and boys insignificant? Should we not give a shit about them? You tell me.

Sources:

https://www.victimsweek.gc.ca/res/r512.html

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-south-asia-11217772

https://www.dawn.com/news/1463990

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/nov/03/revealed-male-used-systematically-in-libya-as-instrument-of-war

https://www.hrw.org/news/2013/03/21/jordan-obama-should-press-king-asylum-seeker-pushbacks

https://politicalviolenceataglance.org/2013/07/11/male-victimhood-in-armed-conflict/

https://www.law.umich.edu/newsandinfo/features/Pages/starr_gender_disparities.aspx

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/aug/25/male-circumcision-ceremonies-death-deformity-africa

https://www.oxfam.org/en/west-africa-crisis-nigeria/missing-men-and-boys-nigerias-unfolding-tragedy

theanchorman05 · 2019-07-14T12:20:04+00:00

You have tons of posts on this sub to help you find your answer. Stop being lazy and look.

Billy1510 · 2019-07-14T11:51:24+00:00

90% sure you are a troll. But the question is are you a white knight, or an extreme feminist? Hmm

Lethn · 2019-07-14T13:35:54+00:00

I'm a women. While there are certain topics I disagree with the MRM movement on, there are certain male rights issue that I think I legitimate that should be taken seriously. (I'm using male's rights because it affects all males, babies, boys and men)

1) Circumcision. Every year, thousands of babies have part of their penis cut. 99.99% of the time, these circumcisions are not done put of medical necessity to save a boys life. It's done because his parents have a preconceived bias of what a penis should look like or because of some adherence to a book written centuries ago.

Circumcision is a procedure that permanently disfigures a person's body, and most of the time it is done before a boy jas any agency to decide. You wouldn't tattoo a baby for aesthetic reasons, so why would you dismember part of his body?

2) A lack of funding for men's shelters amd other social services. Men make up a majority of the homeless. There are a lot of reasons for it, ranging from drug addiction to being unable to work due a disability to just having to leave because of an abusive spouse.

Despite making up the majority of the homeless, there are very few social programs, mental health services and shelters to help these man get back on their feet. The ones that do exists are poorly funded, and are unable to accomodate the demands.

I fully support the MRM in their efforts to build more men's shelter and get more funding for social programs to help these homeless men receive the help they need to

3) Higher rates of work place injuries both physically and mentally.

Men are more likely to get into jobs that require hard physical labor or jobs that put their safety at risk.

Because of that, a lot of men get injured at work. If they're lucky, their injuries are minor enough that they'll recover and be able tp work again. Sometimes, their injury is severe enough that they can't work and lose their livelihoods, their houses, their family... and worse of all, sometimes they die.

Apart from physical harm, the mental health aspect shouldn't be neglected. Men are more likely to join the military. Imagine you were 18 year old semt to combat, and suddenly a bomb goes off next to you. Next thing you know, severed limbs and heads are scattered everywhere across the street. They belong to people you know. As a 18 year old, chances are you'll get PTSD too, and it'll stick with decades after you leabe the military.

Sure, you can say this men willingly chose to go into these profession, knowing the risks. Well... not necessarily, sometimes these men are pressured into "manning up" and choosing a certain career path.

But even for those that know the consequences, they still have the rights to ensure that their employers make sure their work enviroment is as safe as possible. And tying it back to point 2, for those that get injured, they have the rights to get the help they need.

Is there anything slightly controversial about the MRM wanting men to have a safe work place and be able to get the help they need to live a dignified life?

Evildl17 · 2019-07-14T12:09:20+00:00

men have greater education and occupation opportunities,

This alone shows how disingenuous you are because even a cursory glance shows more men drop out of primary school, more men drop out of college, more women graduate and more women have admissions opportunities in the USA.

This doesn't mean there aren't areas in the world where women are oppressed but that doesn't change how its men who are drafted for wars (which men need to do to vote and women don't, so the USA does have a system where unconditional voting rights are given to women and not men, fuck off with that logic. It doesn't change men who are generally pushed into the higher risk jobs they die at, men who are more likely to commit suicide, men who are more likely to be homeless, men who are more likely lose the ability to see their children in custody battles, men who are more likely to be a random victim of an assault or murder.

You want to talk about DV? The likeley gender of a perpetrator doesn't change the gender of a victim and your bullshit logic only seeks to ignore the masses of men who are physically and emotionally abused.

Just fuck off with your gynocentric thinking because your benevolent sexism is far more insidious and far worse for gender equality than anything said in this subreddit. The best thing you can do for everyone is to shut the hell up and let the adults handle the real conversation.

lostapwbm · 2019-07-14T17:10:49+00:00

Im legit clueless...

That's pretty apparent.

...what yall are even on here for.

Same thing anyone is on the internet for:

Pr0n and may-mays.

Men have always occupied virtually every position of political power,

Any men in particular?

Despite your sloppy understanding of politics notwithstanding, political power is largely dependent on who your family/friends are.

...men possess the majority of wealth,

Any men in particular?

I'm still waiting for Bill Gates to send me a check in the name of 'penis solidarity.'

...men have greater education and occupation opportunities,

Any men in particular?

I love these sweeping, unqualified, premature abstractions based on the most superficial interpretation of society humanly possible.

...men are overwhelmingly the perpetrators rather than victims of gender violence,

An outright lie.

Can anyone tell me a single country, city, or town where Men require Female chaperones in order to leave the house?

How is that relevant?

Are you feeling a bout of Islamophobia coming on, you bigot? Get woke and respect other people's beautiful and diverse cultures!

Can anyone tell me of a single democracy where women had the right to vote but not men?

Democracy is garbage.

I legitimately don't understand what the issue is here.

That sounds like a 'you' problem, not a 'me' problem.

Is it the Jordan Peterson/incel "men have a right to a reproductive partner" thing?

You're not doing this correctly. You're supposed to add 'bucko' at the end of the sentence for maximum Jordan Peterson trolling.

Is it that you dont like the mean names that others use to describe your social views?

For me to care what a person calls me implies that I care about someone else's opinion.

I do not.

What issue do men as a gender face today?

Obviously, the only issue men as a gender face is that women are just too wonderful for us.

iainmf · 2019-07-14T13:35:53+00:00

I have not removed this post even though sounds like trolling. It’s worth keeping some of these posts as a record of the trolling we get here.

RightTwiceADay80 · 2019-07-14T13:35:53+00:00

men have greater education and occupation opportunities, men are overwhelmingly the perpetrators rather than victims of gender violence

These specifically are lies you've been told. Women get higher grades for the same work in school, have programs especially designed to get them into highly desirable fields, scholarships just for them being f ed Male, etc.

As for gendered violence you may want to check out

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1854883/

tenchineuro · 2019-07-14T17:57:14+00:00

Men have always occupied virtually every position of political power, men possess the majority of wealth, men have greater education and occupation opportunities, men are overwhelmingly the perpetrators rather than victims of gender violence, on and on and on.

So then you are a wealthy, educated man with a great education in a position of power (presumably only because you are male) who is also a perpetrator of violence and on and on..

Nice to meet you.

2019-07-14T16:30:56+00:00

This one is easy. Here’s a list for you of less common arguments. For all the other more common arguments, read everyone else’s comments.

Men can be forced to fight in wars in a lot of western countries (conscription) while women can’t be

In the UK, women are routinely entitled to free taxpayer funded vaccinations which men are denied despite there being genuine medical benefits to men by having them vaccinated. Likewise for breast cancer screenings.

In France a woman can lie about the paternity of a child, deny the father access to DNA testing and have the state take his money without any real recourse.

In India, women get their own women-only transportation funded by taxpayers, while men lack the same courtesy despite having to fund it out of their own pockets. Japan has similar but with private train companies.

In most western countries it is legal to circumcise boys for vanity reasons, while it’s illegal to circumcise women - despite both being genital mutilation. Women get a legal protection that men aren’t given

In the UK, council housing banding allows for homeless mothers to get priority over homeless fathers due to how banding rules work, despite the Equality Act attempting to stop this

In the UK (again), it’s illegal to discriminate on pay, yet maternity pay is allowed to intentionally be greater than paternity pay. A judgement confirming this was made in May 2019. The only gender pay gap that’s supported under the law is one denying men equal pay to women.

As of 2013, men paid 60% more taxes than women in the UK despite only being a 1.5 million delta between men and women in the workplace. Also, it’s worth noting that more women work part time jobs than men (41% of all women work part time, based on less than 35 hours per week). Combined with the additional free taxpayer-funded services that women receive, this means that men are actually funding women exclusive services despite the actual taxpayers not voting for them to be implemented (things funded that weren’t in a manifesto). In the US, it was determined that women actually made a complete net loss of 15% due to the difference in payments, yet more women-exclusive services are provided than men-exclusive services - despite there being demand from voters for much needed men’s services such as men’s homeless shelters and taxpayer funded psychological services for drafted soldiers.

On a less serious side to things:

Bars and clubs sell drinks to women which are discounted against the law almost completely unchecked, a man recently sued BrewDog on principle and won £1000 as he was refused their Pink IPA at the £4 discounted price (verdict reached in May 2019). Despite this being against the Equality Act and being the norm, no government action is taken to prevent this despite complaints. Likewise for gyms that charge both women and men the same yet have only exclusive women-only hours.

Lactating men cannot breastfeed children in public while women can, in section 13(6a,6b) of the Equality Act, despite some men technically being capable of it - this one is on principle as it’s a pointless explicit exception in an Act about Equality

Still not convinced?

2019-07-14T21:02:12+00:00

wow ur either a troll or mega dumb

2019-07-14T12:58:56+00:00

Here you go.

https://www.singularity2050.com/2010/01/the-misandry-bubble.html

iainmf · 2019-07-14T13:07:23+00:00

None of the areas you mention where men have advantages is a counter-argument to advocating for men's rights. That's like saying we don't need to do anything for poor people in rich countries because the richest people are benefiting from being in a rich country.

As MLK said “Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere. We are caught in an inescapable network of mutuality, tied in a single garment of destiny. Whatever affects one directly, affects all indirectly.

awksomepenguin · 2019-07-14T14:57:47+00:00

Men have problems that aren't being dealt with.

It's really that simple.

AEHIILRS · 2019-07-14T15:33:08+00:00

Men have always occupied virtually every position of political power

Due to gender out-group bias in men (and gender in-group bias in women), men in positions of power use that power to benefit women (and women in positions of power use that power to benefit women). Broadly, these two (or three) observations are summed up by saying we live in a gynocentric patriarchy.

men possess the majority of wealth

Men posses the majority of poverty, too. Or would, rather, of they didn't die of it, tying to make sure their wives and child have enough.

men have greater education and occupation opportunities

This may be true in some parts of the world (and history) where educational and occupational opportunities are scarce.

men are overwhelmingly the perpetrators rather than victims of gender violence

The majority of rape victims are male.
The majority of domestic abuse victims are male.
...and on and on.

Can anyone tell me a single country, city, or town where Men require Female chaperones in order to leave the house?

Men are at much much higher risk of being the target of violent crime. So... all of them.

Can anyone tell me of a single democracy where women had the right to vote but not men?

The United States.

Is it the Jordan Peterson/incel "men have a right to a reproductive partner" thing?

I don't know what that is, so I'm gonna go with "No."

Many folks come here by way of seeing women perpetrate domestic, child, and/or sexual abuse and not only get away with it, but in some cases have the state assist them.

Is it that you dont like the mean names that others use to describe your social views?

I've not seen this to be the case. "My social views" actually seem to be quite popular, but they are disruptive to the status quo, so those in power may need to falsely associate them with something distasteful. This tactic has become less effective as late.

What issue do men as a gender face today?

Judging by you post, lack of awareness of the various things I and others have mentioned.

Well, lack of awareness, and/or deliberately misinformed confidence, and/or ignorance.

Egalitarianwhistle · 2019-07-14T19:15:52+00:00

Check out the sidebar. Male disposability versus species gynocentrism.

What about the gaslighting of false rape accusations? According to Lisak, only 2-8% of false rapes are proven (using a very strict standard,) and everyone in the media uses that to mean 90% of accusations are true. That is not the case. And we see instance after instance of men's lives being destroyed because a false rape accusation is made and everybody immediately assumes it is true.

If only 1% of women are dishonest enough to use false rape allegations for their own selfish ends. That comes out to millions of men whose lives are permanently darkened. I know several men who would rather be raped than falsely accused of rape. In the former case, there is trauma to be dealt with, but at least there is support and help (mostly for woemn,) but if you are falsely accused even your own friends will never treat you the same.

2019-07-14T19:41:45+00:00

Wait till your falsely accused or rape and your life ruined forever , then you will fully understand mens right issues!

JaxJags904 · 2019-07-15T14:26:11+00:00

So since men have more people on power, screw all the guys struggling right?

75% of homeless people are men.

TheHelpfulDad · 2019-07-14T20:47:58+00:00

We are the new Nigerians

2019-07-14T22:41:27+00:00

Men have always occupied virtually every position of political power

Apex Fallacy. Of all the men that have lived in the last millennia, what percentage held positions of political power and what percentage did not? Serfdom, slavery, indentured farming, indentured servitude, and capitalistic exploitation meant the vast majority of men in the last 1000 years were property outright, or were so close to property it didn't matter. The overwhelming majority of men in the last 1000 years couldn't even exercise the franchise, let alone make a law or run government. Most western nations didn't give men the universal franchise until the 1920s, right along side the universal women's franchise.

men possess the majority of wealth

Another Apex Fallacy. The overwhelming majority of men in the last millennia, being serfs, slaves, indentured farmers/servants, or exploited labour lived short, ugly, hard lives that saw them live decades shorter lives than the nobility, with significantly poorer health and outcomes. The gap in height between the nobility and the commonality at the OUTSET OF WWI, ie. about a hundred years ago and firmly in the modern era, was roughly 5", and they made 'bantam' units in the British military for men under 5'5" because of how many of them there were. That's millions of men with rickets, scurvy, and poor development due to poverty and poor diet.

men have greater education and occupation opportunities

Again, another Apex Fallacy. Public education is the product of only the last couple of hundred years, and a bona fide education was the purvey of the upper crust for most of the last millennia. The first public schools in the UK began in the 1860s. In the US there was a handful by the 1840s. We don't have mandatory schooling for everyone, regardless of class, clear across the US, until 1918. So, we went from 'finally, everyone gets to go to school' to 'women dominate academia' in only 100 years.

men are overwhelmingly the perpetrators rather than victims of gender violence

If you openly ignore that we don't even remotely treat women the same when they've committed violence vs. men, sure! From DV to sexual assault, police statistics paint one picture, that of men victimizing women, but victimization surveys paint another picture, where violence against men by women is systematically hidden statistically (see the separate 'made to penetrate' statistic in the CDC surveys, as an example), or patently ignored (see female on male DV and the 200+ studies that show men are a significant pool of our victims), etc. For 40-50 years we've been measuring public opinion of criminality, and the public ranks crimes against women to be twice as severe as the same crime with a male victim, and downplays female perpetrators by a significant amount. Our pro female bias is simply RAGING when it comes to criminality.

Can anyone tell me a single country, city, or town where Men require Female chaperones in order to leave the house?

This is the opposite of the Apex Fallacy, called the Nadir Fallacy, where you judge the whole by the behaviour of its worst members. Sure, those kinds of nations exist, but let's not pretend that western democracies have anything whatsoever to do with that behaviour. The overwhelming majority of men and women in the west are opposed to such treatment, and lumping in millions and millions of men that recoil at this kind of behaviour with the perpetrators in places like Saudi Arabia, for nothing more than the fact they share a Y chromosome, is more than a little bit of a douche move.

Can anyone tell me of a single democracy where women had the right to vote but not men?

No, but I can tell you of how many western nations opened up the franchise to ALL men on the same day they opened it up to ALL women ... virtually all of them. Seriously, stop making a fool of yourself and actually go read on the history of the franchise. You're blazingly ignorant on most of these topics, but you're REALLY ignorant on this one.

understandablyno · 2019-07-14T13:23:16+00:00

LOL! What an amateur. If our mods have any self-respect they will delete your pathetic attempts at time-wasting.

Title	Can someone explain to me how mens rights is an issue?
Author	johnnylovelace
Upvotes	0
Comments	54
Date	July 14, 2019 11:49 AM UTC (7 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/cd25e1/can_someone_explain_to_me_how_mens_rights_is_an/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/can-someone-explain-to-me-how-mens-rights-is-an.873578 https://theredarchive.com/post/873578

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