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Men in business attire may be bad for women and the climate

borga

May 30, 2019
60 upvotes
/r/MensRights
https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/men-business-attire-women-cognitive-performance-study-1.5154942?cmp=rss
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Post Information
Title Men in business attire may be bad for women and the climate
Author

borga

Upvotes 60
Comments 31
Date May 30, 2019 12:10 PM UTC
(7 years ago)
Subreddit Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/busdf2/men_in_business_attire_may_be_bad_for_women_and/
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/men-in-business-attire-may-be-bad-for-women-and.876645
https://theredarchive.com/post/876645
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Comments

[–]serial_crusher[🍰] 30 points31 points32 points 7 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

Not sure how I feel on this. Office dress codes are bullshit, so I’m glad to see them going away. I don’t like that they’re raising the temperatures to go along with it though.

There’s a point where cold blooded people can’t take more clothes off, but warm blooded people can always put more clothes on. You’re going to end up making men just as uncomfortable as ever, but now they get to be uncomfortable while wearing shorts.

The article is talking about raising temperatures to 28 Celsius (82.4 Fahrenheit). I’d be miserable in that environment, even if I was wearing nothing but a speedo.

[–]Lethn 11 points12 points13 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

The fact that the media and feminists are even considering this as a legitimate issue is ridiculous because it's something for companies and individuals to decide on amongst themselves. Part of the issue will be that companies insist on these shit cubicle offices etc. and there's no way for people to adjust the temperature of the rooms they're in to their own personal preferences which would ultimately solve the problem.

Rather than think about these types of solutions however, the activists are on the march and are insisting on turning it into a gender based problem and will keep on trying to present it as an example of workplace discrimination when in reality they're bitching about the fact that they live in absolute luxury compared to the rest of us that they have air conditioning at all.

Every time I think about the women who complain about this sort of bullshit I always imagine some snobby upper class rich white woman sitting in an office with air conditioning in a glass tower block that has it's own in-house bar bitching about the patriarchy and how oppressed she is. I know that won't always be the case but honestly who else has the fucking time when they're working to bitch about stuff like this and go to the media with it? These people all know each other and it's painfully obvious how they get this bullshit to become a news story.

[–]TC1827 4 points5 points6 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

class rich white woman sitting in an office with air conditioning in a glass tower block that has it's own in-house bar bitching about the patriarchy and how oppressed she is.

I think of a rich white girl attending an elite university with a law school and law firm offer lined up. Maybe because I am 23 and I've heared privileged rich white girls talk all the time about how oppressed they are

[–]kequilla 5 points6 points7 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Plus or minus the sweaty smell. Compounded over time as it soaks into chairs. Increasing cleaning costs.

Deodorant only helps so much.

[–]BittyMitty 4 points5 points6 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

The main goal is to lower the bills.

In Germany they tried the green buildings that self regulate temperature to save the cost of air conditioning.
Either way, same effect temps above 28.
At least there were individual offices of 3-5 people and you could open a window.
Imagine that with a 50 people room with no windows to open.

[–]plainwalk 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Not raising the temp to 28, but allowing it to reach 28 before the AC kicks in. I work in an environment that requires me to move around a lot, plus work in areas with poor ventilation, and I feel dangerously close to heatstroke after a couple hours at 22-24 degrees at 'hallway' temps.

[–]McFeely_Smackup 7 points8 points9 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

so let me see if I understand, men have suffered for literally hundreds of years, forced to wear "business appropriate" clothing with no regard for comfort or temperature...now women are complaining it's too cold because they don't want to wear a jacket, so NOW it's a big deal?

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points6 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Many men want to wear more casual clothes but cannot because of the office dress codes.

[–]Wannton47 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Pants and long sleeve dress shirt every day, short sleeve polo on Friday’s only, dress shoes and boots - girls in my office wear almost whatever and sandals and the rare flip flops - but I’m irrationally when I say I get hot and suggest to wear more/thicker clothing or bring a blanket, which some of the girls started doing

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points5 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Honestly this is the first "sexist air conditioning" piece I've seen that addresses the fact that dress codes (not evil mustache twirling men trying to oppress underdressed female coworkers) are the reason office temps are so low. If one wants to go after office dress codes, that's a reasonable conversation to have.

That said, 28 C is insanity.

[–]Greg_W_Allan 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I worked at 71F for twenty years. The mainframe computer's comfort levels were more important than mine.

[–][deleted] 8 points9 points10 points 7 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

Wait, wait, wait--this is delicious: feminists are now trying to tell men what to wear. Think on that and its implications for a few moments.

[–]CallOfReddit 3 points4 points5 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Let's be nudists?

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points7 points 7 years ago (12 children) | Copy Link

Reasonable enough article, actually. Stays away from blame/gender politics and just sticks to the pragmatic aspects of things by suggesting that it should become more acceptable for men to dress down, meaning there wouldn't be as big a difference in how warm men and women feel in the office, allowing a single temperature to better suit everyone.

[+]Mackowatosc1 points 7 years ago* [recovered] (7 children) | Copy Link

THE problem point being, why should men dress down in order for women to have it better? We dont exist for them, really.

[–]DJ-Roukan 2 points3 points4 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

exactly the point.

​

Not changing for the benefit of men, but for women. There has always been a disparity in dress codes for men and women in the work environment. Men who have complained about dress codes have been silenced, or shamed, told how "easy " they have it compared to women because their dress is simplistic.

​

Few women get chilly, lets quickly shift the entire paradigm.

​

...but we are not a gynocentric state of oppression.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

Uh, an environment that both men and women are forced to share should try to cater for both simultaneously as best as possible, think that should be obvious. If you set it to suit women, then men are catering for women, if you set it to suit men, then women are catering for men and the same argument you make works against you.

[–]DJ-Roukan 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

The environment is set exclusively for women, and has been since the first hysteria of sexual harassment came about. Dress code is no different. Women have always had choice in office dress. Men, no option but the shirt and tie.

I've walked into my local bank, seen the boy cinched up in shirt and tie,the girls wearing everything from sun dresses to mickey mouse Sweatshirts.

​

now, once again, being altered for the needs of women over men. Unless we drop the entire dress code, warmer offices will benefit women, but do exactly what they claim to be victim-hood, to men.

[–]Wannton47 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

It boils down to the distinction between which outcome is more desirable or the lesser of two evils. Either the office is colder and women are cold and men are fine, or it’s warmer and the women are happier and men are uncomfortable (generalization, obviously). In a situation where men are usually having warmer body temperatures/more affected by heat, and they are forced to wear more clothing that is thicker and therefore warmer, does it make more sense to have it a temperature where the men are comfortable enough to not be sweating all day and women are cold or wear/bring warmer clothing, or turn the temp up and have men be hot without the ability to remove any clothing and have women comfortable. I see both sides but I definitely agree with the “men’s side”.

It boils down to is it worse for someone to be hot/sweating in a work environment, or for someone to feel cold, and I would definitely argue having people cold would be preferable to people hot/sweating.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

In a situation where men are usually having warmer body temperatures/more affected by heat, and they are forced to wear more clothing that is thicker and therefore warmer, does it make more sense to have it a temperature where the men are comfortable enough to not be sweating all day and women are cold or wear/bring warmer clothing, or turn the temp up and have men be hot without the ability to remove any clothing and have women comfortable

If you read the article, it's in favour of allowing men to wear more casual/light clothing, nullifying much of this issue.

[–]Wannton47 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Didn’t read the article but I got the general idea and was just skimming comments as I have a pretty firm opinion on the matter, I get the dress code thing and agree, but at some point you have to be realistic and realize it’s there for a reason. In my office 90% of the men are brokers and even if there were not a hard dress code they would be expected to wear the same clothing to look nice, impress clients, and seal deals. I’m not a broker but it is much the same for me since I am interacting with clients everyday. Only difference is I don’t have to dress as nice/wear a suit but it’s still full pants and long sleeves.

Also my approach was to reduce the argument stripping out the extraneous points (i.e. the article dress code approach) and just getting to the heart of this argument that has been going for some time now, specifically the heart of the argument which has hinged on my points above and not removing a dress code to make an office warmer.

[–]MisterDamage 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

You set it to suit the people who don't have any choice in their attire. That way, the people who do have choices can dress to please themselves.

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points8 points 7 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Reasonable enough article, actually. Stays away from blame/gender politics

The title literally calls men bad for women and the environment. How is this not male blaming gender politics?

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points5 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

It says men wearing business attire may be bad, obviously doesn't say men themselves are bad

[+]Neodalla1 points 7 years ago* [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link

How is that you're takeaway from the title?

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points1 point 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Because I can read. Men in suits (literally required in many offices) may be bad for the women and the environment.

Men = Bad. right there in the title. It's not the restrictive dress code that many men are subjected to that's the problem, but men.

Funny thing is we heat offices in Canada half the year, so in the winter men who like it cooler are actually helping by using less natural gas for heating.

[–]Crazycatgirl16 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Out of all the other important issues, they choose to tackle this?? Oh goodness 🙄

[–]Lupinfujiko 3 points4 points5 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Guys, the office temperature is too cold. This is clearly oppressive. This is clearly a sign of the evil patriarchy.

Not only that, but climate change! Climate change everyone! Men in suits are not only patriarchal oppressive evil task masters, but they are also ruining the planet at the same time!

Thank you CBC for bringing our awareness to this issue. From now on I'll keep my thermostat at 22 instead of the repressive 21. And I will be sure to do my activist part and shame anyone who dares wear a suit to the office.

Yay! Equality!

[–]TC1827 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I think it is unfortunate that people are dressing less formally these days. I have no issue dressing up, I just get frustrated that men have to but women don't.

[–]Mr_Shad0w -1 points0 points1 point 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Agree that dress codes are for elementary school and not the workplace, but this article feels very slapdash to me.

These people are aware of the existence of summer suits? Made with lighter fabrics, like they have been since time before air conditioning? Doesn't look like it. What did they think men wore to work back in those days?

I'm not advocating for office environments being made uncomfortable for anyone by design, but seriously - put on a sweater. My productivity suffers when I'm stuck under a vent blowing hot air on a 95 degree day. Is that worth a few points of Karen's "mental acuity" when she could easily put on another layer? I can't exactly take enough clothes off to escape an office like a pressure cooker.

At least they do note that in the end, it's all about money. Too bad the article was about the stupid gender see-saw instead of something more apt, like: "The bosses want to cut costs by making your office more like an actual sweatshop - and that's bad for everyone."

[–]Wannton47 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

The idea of a summer suit is hilarious to me. Where I’m at at least, the summer has no regard for the name of your clothing, if you’re wearing a suit you’re gunna fucking hate life for a few hours.

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