Italy: two year old dies after circumcision and his twin brother is in serious condition

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[+]freddydangerface1 points 7 years ago* [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link

I'm eager to hear any benefits you think exist for routine infant circumcision.

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[–]MrSmigick 10 points11 points12 points 7 years ago* (25 children) | Copy Link

So you're circumcised and fine with it? Good for you. But some of us feel violated in the knowledge that our sexual experience has been altered without our consent. It's difficult putting into the words the pain and anger of being circumcised and genuinely wishing you weren't and despising that this was done without your consent. For some of us, being branded with a religious symbol we don't identify with can be frustrating. To be absolutely clear, I don't want adult circumcision outlawed. I just think boys should be free from non-consensual genital cutting just as girls are. Just as parents are not free to hit their children, they don't deserve the freedom to by-proxy commit sexual violence against their children by paying a doctor to slice off part of their genitalia. You not remembering that it happened doesn't make it any less wrong to remove the male prepuce than it does to commit date rape. Whether or not a victim remembers or not has no bearing on the "wrongness" of an act. You should've been afforded the freedom to make that choice yourself. And if you decided you didn't like having foreskin, you could've gotten rid of it once you reached the age of consent. You say you literally have no issues related to it in anyway, but assuming you're not well read on intactivism and the foreskin, how could you know that? Circumcision has multiple drawbacks that negatively impact the sexual activity of males and their female partners. Some of my sources are NSFW.

First off is the loss of or diminishing of the "gliding mechanism" which is how the foreskin glides back and forth during intercourse and masturbation. The foreskin will stimulate the glans by gliding over it, and the loose skin means that the woman's natural lubrication is not drawn out and evaporated, making sex easier without the need for artificial lubrication. The covering over the glans also protects the glans from abrasions and friction from harsh fabrics. If you are circumcised, you don't have these functions. Source
Additionally, circumcision ablates the most pleasurable part of the penis. "The most sensitive location on the circumcised penis was the circumcision scar on the ventral surface. Five locations on the uncircumcised penis that are routinely removed at circumcision had lower pressure thresholds than the ventral scar of the circumcised penis. The glans of the circumcised penis is less sensitive to fine touch than the glans of the uncircumcised penis. The transitional region from the external to the internal prepuce is the most sensitive region of the uncircumcised penis and more sensitive than the most sensitive region of the circumcised penis. Circumcision ablates the most sensitive parts of the penis." Source
10,000 to 20,000 nerve endings are lost from circumcision. The author also notes how circumcision makes the penis smaller by reducing its width and sometimes reduces its length if there is insufficient skin for the organ to become fully erect.
According to the New Zealand Medical Journal, Volume 116, Number 1181 pages 595-596 ""Participants completed a 35-item sexual awareness survey. Women reported they were significantly more likely to have experienced vaginal dryness during intercourse with circumcised than with genitally intact men" It also points out that most women who've had sex with both circumcised and intact partners preferred intact partners. The foreskin helps to keep vaginal lubricant inside the female partner during intercourse, reducing dryness. The journal does note, however, that the impact of circumcision on vaginal dryness needs further investigation."
What we do know, however, is that circumcision causes painful sex and abrasions for women. It can also cause pre-mature ejaculation, inability to ejaculate, and because the nerves in the foreskin provide an impulse to aid erection, it can also contribute to erectile dysfunction. Source Presumably, the pain to female partners is exacerbated by the fact that circumcised guys probably often times prefer fast, hard thrusts as opposed to something more gentle to make up for the lack of sensitivity.

At this point, you're probably thinking "yeah, but circumcision isn't designed to control human sexuality like FGM is." That would be where you're wrong. To make sure I'm absolutely clear, there are a range of practices in regards to FGM, and I'm going to specifically focus on type Ia, which is defined by the WHO as removal of the clitoral hood or prepuce only. Source It's completely, and rightfully so, illegal to slice off the female prepuce without her consent, so why the hell should it be legal to slice off the male prepuce without his consent? Circumcision was advocated by Dr.Kellog (yes, the one who made cornflakes) as a means of "curing" masturbation. Source Also, here's a timeline of medical circumcision's history, which includes things as bizarre as "circumcising blacks will help prevent them from raping whites."

By now, you must be thinking "but there are benefits, right? Why else would we be performing this procedure?" The benefits are negligible at best.

100 circumcisions would need to be performed just to prevent one UTI.
Though circumcision reduces the risk of developing penile cancer by 70%, penile cancer is still one of the rarest malignancies in the world. Source
Phimosis, a condition where the foreskin is fused to the glans, can be treated with non-invasive or minimally invasive procedures aside from prepucectomy. Source
Circumcised men are more at risk for contracting certain STDs. Nor does circumcision prevent STD infection. Source
No association between cervical cancer and a lack of circumcision. Source

Currently, there is nothing men can do to get back the body they were entitled to at birth if they feel violated by this procedure. There is no way for them to get back their foreskin or its supporting structures. There is "foreskin restoration" which is done by stretching shaft skin to cover the glans, but this is merely a substitution and doesn't restore the foreskin's supporting structures, and if a man feels violated in the knowledge that this was done to him, I doubt it can ever undo those feelings, either. Currently, the only hope for these men to get back what was stolen from them is Foregen. But that's still costly and will probably not be available for a long time.

[–]MGTOWPOLITICS 6 points7 points8 points 7 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

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[–]MrSmigick 5 points6 points7 points 7 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Have you ever felt your glans chafe against a harsh pair of underwear just like every other circumcised man has? Yes? Then you've noticed it. Ever had sex with a woman without a condom and needed an artificial lubricant either for hers or your own comfort? Yes? Then you've noticed it. Can't stimulate your glans during masturbation without a lubricant? Yes? Then you've noticed it. Do your glans look dried out and cracked like the ones on the right as opposed to the ones on the left? NSFW Yes? Then you've noticed it. There are also ways it might effect your daily life in the future. Erectile dysfunction? Lack of foreskin is probably making it worse. Delayed ejaculation? Lack of foreskin is probably making it worse. Pre-mature ejaculation? Lack of foreskin is probably making it worse. Even if it doesn't effect you, that doesn't mean every other circumcised man isn't effected by it.

Literally the only other places in the world aside from America where circumcision is popular is the middle east and sub-saharan Africa.

[–]Naokarma 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]MrSmigick 4 points5 points6 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Anecdotal evidence < Scientific papers

In your original comment you asked,

for people who think circumcisions are awful, why?

And I gave credible sources for all my claims of the problems circumcision causes. The loss of the gliding mechanics from the foreskin, decrease in sensitivity, decrease in size, increased pain and abrasions during sex for female partners, decreased lubrication, and increased likelihood of sexual dysfunction are my answers. I'd imagine you don't go around talking with your family about your dicks, so how would you know no one in your family is having any of these problems? And even if they do have any problems resulting from circumcision, that doesn't mean they are necessarily conscious of them. Just because you haven't experienced, or at least aren't conscious of them, these problems doesn't mean most other circumcised men don't experience them.

[–]MrSmigick 5 points6 points7 points 7 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]Naokarma 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]MrSmigick 5 points6 points7 points 7 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

That being said the only man in my entire family to not be Circumcised is literally on oxygen as we speak, while everybody else is perfectly fine.

Irrelevant. That has nothing to do with the state of his foreskin. You even admitted this earlier in the thread.

and the one person who didn't is my grandpa currently on oxygen. (For reasons unrelated but still the point is there.)

Sound familiar?

You don't lose all ability to feel pleasure.

Your reading comprehension ability is that of a 5th grader. I never said that you did. I said that the primary erogenous zone of the male body is ablated. I even gave a source for this claim in my original comment. I never, ever said that you lose all ability to feel pleasure. I should know because I myself am circ'd. Nice strawman fallacy, though.

Also if you end up with an STD it's gonna happen because you slept with somebody carrying it.

Excellent, you've just debunked one of the purported benefits of male circumcision. Circumcision won't prevent contracting STDs. Condoms and avoiding thots will. But if you do decide to have unprotected sex with an STD carrier, you're more vulnerable to contracting certain STDs than if you were intact. I sourced this, too.

The circumcision isn't going to generate a disease.

Circumcision botches that result in infection happen all the time. Also, a baby having an open wound in his diaper makes him more susceptible to being infected when his immune system is at its weakest.

[–]Naokarma 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]MrSmigick 3 points4 points5 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I just said that it's not like the difference is so huge you lose much.

I already sourced that you lose 10k-20k nerve endings and that the parts lost as a result of circumcision are all more sensitive than the most sensitive part of the circumcised penis and that the glans of the circumcised penis are less sensitive. In comparison, the female clitoris has about 8k nerve endings. So yes, it is totally fair to say that you lose a great deal of sensitivity and pleasure. But since you seem to like anecdotal evidence so much, here's a whole shit load of men who were circumcised as adults saying how much sensitivity they lost. Source

it's not a stab wound. Blades don't mean the end.

Doesn't have to be to increase vulnerability to infection.

i never said that it had to be for babies.

I never said that you said that. You said,

The circumcision isn't going to generate a disease.

and I responded by providing a way that it can cause one to contract disease, albeit as a baby.

[+]BuzzLightGear3211 points 7 years ago* [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link

Genuine question

The more I read your replies, the more I think this is BS.

[–]Naokarma 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points6 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]intactisnormal 4 points5 points6 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Title	Italy: two year old dies after circumcision and his twin brother is in serious condition
Author	platesizedareola
Upvotes	134
Comments	92
Date	December 23, 2018 5:08 PM UTC (7 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/a8wavq/italy_two_year_old_dies_after_circumcision_and/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/italy-two-year-old-dies-after-circumcision-and-his.887784 https://theredarchive.com/post/887784

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