Help me understand Allimony

washingtonpanther · 2018-11-26T14:10:16+00:00

Just think of it as the dick tax.

Part of me will always want something romantic but I cannot fathom a logical way of ensuring it with the current toxic misandry of the legal system.

Experttradition · 2018-11-26T19:37:01+00:00

A long time ago, women were unable to hold substantial employment that made them capable of paying the bills on their own. It was expected they would marry and their husbands would provide for them. Marriage was meant to be a life-long relationship; men were essentially bound to support their otherwise incapable wives for life.

Times have long since changed, and women are more than capable of supporting themselves, but the alimony laws have not been updated to reflect our new reality.

PandaBOY1423 · 2018-11-26T14:06:49+00:00

Im making a premature guess but she sounds like a fucking dick.

Blutarg · 2018-11-26T16:07:44+00:00

“trajectory of her career before she had kids”

Wow, her kids must feel great, knowing that she considers them absolutely worthless. So worthless, in fact, that she has to be paid money as compensation for the time spent having them.

McFeely_Smackup · 2018-11-26T18:21:06+00:00

Keep in mind that supporting and paying 100% of a womans bills and living expenses for a decade or two is considered to have zero value, in fact it creates an obligation because she now doesn't have the ability to provide for herself as well as you did.

I honestly can't imagine why any man would put himself in this position.

korkyshadow · 2018-11-26T19:20:03+00:00

Alimony is supposed to
A: make it so mothers aren't completely fucked in divorce
B: discourage divorce
The problem with A is, it assumes those mothers can't find another man and that they would have been incrediblely successful otherwise. The problem with B is, it actually increases divorce. Men aren't the ones divorcing, women are and making it easily (and even economically superior) didn't stop or discourage divorce it increased it by a lot.

Lethn · 2018-11-26T14:12:24+00:00

It seems like you're actually asking two questions here, you're asking how women can justify themselves emotionally to deserve alimony and whether or not it's financially justified when they've moved onto different partners or have completely comfortable lives.

So in terms of the emotional argument this is just typical pettiness and revenge, in the head of your dad's girlfriend it's all the man's fault. It doesn't matter that she was the one who consented to sex and knew the risks of getting pregnant and didn't wear a condom it's all the man's fault because the man should take responsibility. This screams of the feminist mantra where women area always oppressed and the victims and men are always the oppressors. The kids clearly don't matter to her and in reality it's that in her head she feels like she was cheated out of her career by getting herself pregnant.

At least, that's how she seems to be presenting it from her perspective, this is of course a load of bullshit and she's just as responsible as the man. She's in denial about it though and she's using whatever made up garbage in order to try and demonise the man she was with and make it out that she's fault, she had sex, she got pregnant and now she regrets it. She actually comes across as the exact kind of woman that your dad should stay the fuck away from because I wouldn't go near someone who hates men like that with a ten foot pole and it's obvious she does.

Anyway, in terms of the financial argument, the idea is with alimony that the ex-partner gets enough to live on so they can take care of the children. Sounds harmless right? Well unfortunately you've clearly realised just how biased the court system is. It doesn't matter that this woman is clearly doing it out of spite and clearly a little batshit, it doesn't matter she's living a comfortable life with another boyfriend who's providing for her. That's because we have a very big problem especially in family court where it is not 'public servants' that are in these positions but political activists. I think that the alimony payments should be stopped the moment the ex-partner gets into a stable relationship or job and they should have to prove through their finances that they actually need the money.

I point the blame squarely at feminists, they are responsible for this level of bias in the courts, you go to any domestic violence organisation and kind of lobby group involved with the court I guarantee you they'll be feminist and they have a monopoly over the whole system. They are the ones who likely helped your dad's current girlfriend screw over her ex-partner and convinced her that she's the victim. She may genuinely believe what she says but I wouldn't be surprised if they helped school her in what to say, anything's possible with these lot if she's not very bright.

I realise I got a bit rambly at the end but honestly that's what's going on here, the TLDR is that it's all about spite and revenge. She's weaponised her kids and we have a family court system throughout the west that is more than willing to put innocent men in jail over it partly because they'll make money out of it and also they genuinely think thanks to feminist bullshit like the duluth model which automatically treats women as victims and men as perpetrators based on gender that they can justify their behaviour.

Hope that goes some way to explain the situation, it's fucked, but that's how she likely justifies it herself. In her head, she's the victim no matter what so therefore she's justified in taking everything from her ex and making his life as difficult as possible.

I really, really hope your dad dumps her by the way because she sounds like some major trouble.

CaptSnap · 2018-11-26T17:55:16+00:00

You have to go way back to get to the reason for alimony. Alimony has always been about taking care of women in a world where women could never take care of themselves, they would literally starve to death and no society or state wanted that.

You can find this in one of the first code of laws, hammurabi's code. You can google them and read them for yourself, a good third or a fourth of them... a big damn chunk...of the codes have to do with women and how to make sure they dont get fucked. You see for all this talk about how women are just as strong and just as capable as a man....the reality is...in the time before birth control (which is 1960ish) and the time before automated labor (about 1850ish) women were well and truely fucked. So society dealt with this by strict marriage and property laws, alimony. Its quite old.

Marriage wasnt quite the gleeful hand off of property that feminists think it was, it was much more about the handing off of responsibility. The father WAS responsible for his children (until his son is of age and his daughter gets married) but during the marriage ceremony as a man, you take a vow to be responsible for her. Responsible to provide for her and her children. Marriage was (still is) an economic contract that the man was going to be the economic work horse for this household. Because thats what men were, they were the physical laborers that made economic gains. (Now Im not saying women didnt work, everyone worked. Im just saying if you divide the labor men's work brought the money and women's work made the house a home but that doesnt pay the bills)

Thats why today, just like thousands of years ago, if you divorced you had to make sure your wife or your now ex-wife would be taken care of. She couldnt be poor, she had to get her dowry back (what her family gave you to help you provide for her), she had to be taken care of still because you made a fucking vow and a man's vow is unbreakable.

Under a modern understanding of this economic contract everyone contributes (even if its unequal) and then everyone owns everything equally. Thats why when you split, no matter who made the most contribution everyone gets half. Women have figured this out. If they sit on the couch instead of working they still get half. If they have kids that they always wanted and they stay home and raise them as they always wanted, then they get their half and then they get some more on behalf of their kids because they are the primary caretakers. They get to have their cake and eat it too.

The only solution is to either not marry. Or if you do marry dont have kids, dont make more of a contribution than your partner because your partner is always entitled to half and if she sits on the couch then the most you can be out is half your wealth. If you do marry and do have kids, then make sure you work as little as she does and make no more than she does no matter the cost or youll never see your kids because she'll be the primary caretaker and youll be the primary child supporter. Modern marriage with kids only works to the benefit of whomever can race the other to take on as little of the "male gender role" as possible...ie to provide as little as possible. Because whomever is the provider will be forced to continue to provide and the other will be given the children and the child support checks.

Avistew · 2018-11-26T21:32:23+00:00

Well, alimonies are an old concept. At the time, women didn't work (for money)very often, and a wife's job was to take care of the house and husband, have children and take care of them. A divorce removed her only source of income and because marriage was seen as a life-time commitment still (despite divorce being a thing), the man would pay her a stipend so she wasn't completely out on the street.

Now it's... weird. I've heard it like in your example, of a woman saying this is compensation for the money she would have earned otherwise, had she not sacrificed her career for her ex-husband. I've also heard other explanation, such as paying the ex because you got her used to a higher lifestyle or something.

A lot of alimonies have a clause that it stops if the person remarries but they may not take into account common-law marriage and cohabitating partners.

In theory, alimony isn't based on gender. I actually know a couple women who pay one to their ex-husbands (and are quite happy to do so as the higher earner. Well, "happy" is a stretch, but they agree it's fair). But in practice, probably partially due to habits and partially due to protest from women who think they're owed money, it's usually a man giving money to a woman. (I don't know much about same-sex alimony).

It should definitely take income into account more, and have more of a time limit. There is no reason this woman couldn't have started a new career now, and if her ex subsidized her during the relationship, he's probably compensated for her loss of potential income enough anyway.

hmspain · 2018-11-26T18:42:01+00:00

It seems to me that with a decent lawyer the ex husband could make a case for alimony reduction.

Title	Help me understand Allimony
Author	EvolvingSomewhere
Upvotes	41
Comments	20
Date	November 26, 2018 1:48 PM UTC (7 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/a0jh1y/help_me_understand_allimony/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/help-me-understand-allimony.889411 https://theredarchive.com/post/889411

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