Re: The Red Pill Movie.. Do men need shelters though?

ErNoThatIsBollocks · 2017-03-12T18:37:11+00:00

There's a lot of ignorance of men's issues among men.

Being stronger than your girlfriend/wife often makes very little difference.

Firstly we all have our vulnerable moments. e.g. I was walking with an ex (much smaller than me), when she turned round and punched me in the chest, breaking a rib. Other guys I know have been stabbed and hit with frying pans. Couple this is the fact that men aren't allowed even to restrain women (he'll be the one going to jail).

Men are very much vulnerable to women, but their children are even more so. What's a guy who wants to protect his kids from their abusive mother supposed to do?

TibsKirk · 2017-03-12T18:08:48+00:00

Your ex is stating one of the many poor justifications, which typically say that men should simply take it, man up, or rely on physical strength. A large percentage of male victims of domestic violence do not fight back. They are taught from an early age that the worst thing that a man can do is hit a woman, even in self-defense. So your example here kind of proves the point. Women have a safe place to go. Men are just expected to take it or sleep in a car. Or, they are expected to "man up," because "real men don't need help."

Physical strength can have little to do with physical or emotional violence. It is gender discrimination, especially if tax dollars or breaks are spent helping only one type of victim.

Men's pain is already invisible to society, so this stuff is just a symptom of a much bigger problem.

HeForeverBleeds · 2017-03-12T18:45:41+00:00

Your boyfriend being male doesn't mean he knows anything about the experiences of a male victim of domestic violence anymore than you do, or that he's immune to ignorant stereotypes about female-on-male violence

My ex could probably kill me with his bare hands if he wanted to.. but I for sure couldn't do that to him.

Many women who abuse men don't use their bare hands, though; they can use knives, guns, and heavy household objects. And without weapons/weaponized objects, even if you couldn't kill him you could definitely cause serious physical damage

he could easily overpower me/restrain me.

Most men aren't willing to overpower their girlfriends and become physically violent towards her even in self-defense, especially if he's already been psychologically abused by her and conditioned into accepting the abuse. And even if not, society as a whole pretty much conditions every man from birth into accepting violence from women and are told to never retaliate, so it's very likely he won't try to attack/overpower her, even if she's putting him in danger. And in the off-chance that he does, guess who's now considered the abuser and at risk of going to jail?

And restraining a person only goes so far. Obviously he'll have to release her at some point, and then what? You just assume she's calmed down now and she won't try to attack him again? It's very possible that being restrained will only make her more angry, and the next time she comes out him it will be with a knife. Unless he's trained in self-defense, it's not easy to restrain a person with a knife even if it is a woman

Or even if he manages to calm her down this one time by restraining her, there are girlfriends/wives who are actually abusive as in long-term abuse. How much longer until she's angry at him and becomes violent again? Possibly the next day or a few hours later. You think it's okay for men to live with someone who constantly on the brink of wanting to harm him and can be set off at any moment?

You talk about one singular argument, partners occasionally getting angry with each other, but some men live in the same house with women who's abusive behavior is a continuous thing. Obviously men should have the opportunity for him, and possibly his children, to escape an environment like that, and shelters would be good for those men when they don't have the resources to take their kids and just move out of the house to live somewhere else

HMAN17 · 2017-03-12T18:12:43+00:00

1 point of many

Men's homelessness numbers are far greater then women's by a very large margin.

The cold in the winter does not care which sex you are.

Lethn · 2017-03-12T18:13:10+00:00

It's an argument from ignorance, people make those kind of statements when they have absolutely no other experience other than the stereotypical "Men physically strong, women are weak and need protection" narrative often espoused not just by feminists but by huge number of people.

If you watched the movie all the way through, you may remember that bit about the guy who was talking about his friend that had an abusive wife who kept arguing with him and trying to attack him and he was so afraid of going to jail or hurting her that he would end up going outside so the neighbours wouldn't call the police.

Since as men we're essentially conditioned to see women as the weaker sex we're often very worried about hurting them and some men are so scared of it to the point where they won't even do it when they're dangerously attacked by a woman.

There's also of course various other factors with this sort of thing like a woman knowing martial arts, having a weapon and so on that are equalisers and mean that the whole 'strength' argument immediately becomes bullshit regardless of what people are saying.

Unless he's a total dick, that should probably convince him, up to you whether you want to argue it further though.

Celda · 2017-03-12T19:16:34+00:00

It may be different in other countries. But in USA, Canada, etc. if your boyfriend were to punch you or attack you (even in self-defense) he would go to jail.

So it's irrelevant that he's stronger and could physically overpower you. He can't do that unless he is ok with being arrested and likely convicted, which most men aren't for obvious reasons.

If you live in USA etc., then your boyfriend is just stupid or ignorant.

If you live in another country where the police aren't biased, then he might be correct.

2017-03-12T20:52:34+00:00

The argument was, that since men are physically stronger than women, they are less likely to feel threatened and feel that they need a shelter.

You need to tell your ex-boyfriend that strength and muscle do not deflect bullets, knives, fingernails, teeth, baseball bats, frying pans, scalding hot water, the element of surprise (catching them off guard/at their most vulnerable) and even conditioning that prevents men from defending themselves because "It's not right to hit a woman."

HotDealsInTexas · 2017-03-12T20:55:35+00:00

The argument was, that since men are physically stronger than women, they are less likely to feel threatened and feel that they need a shelter.

Your ex doesn't know his ass from his elbow. He has most likely never been in an abusive relationship and is utterly ignorant of the psychological effects of abuse. He also probably has no fucking idea the level of discrimination men face.

My ex could probably kill me with his bare hands if he wanted to.. but I for sure couldn't do that to him. I'm not nearly as physically strong.

Well, first, you'd be surprised what a determined attacker can do despite a strength disadvantage when their victim is psychologically unable to defend themselves, which is very often the case in domestic abuse cases, particularly because of the societal taboo against men hitting women and the very reasonable fear of getting arrested.

And that's with bare hands. What about with a frying pan? A kitchen knife? A hammer? A thrown plate? A punch knocking him off balance and causing him to hit the back of his head on the corner of the coffee table? Or, just as dangerous, a simple phone call.

In most of the developed world, police and DV organizations are heavily biased against men, and one study showed that male abuse victims who called the police were more likely to be arrested than their abusers. This allows female abusers to use the police and legal system both as a weapon in and of itself, and as a threat to stop their victims from defending themselves.

If he and I were to have an argument, and he got threatning, I would probably likely feel the need to seek a shelter or a friend where I could feel protected.. but I couldn't see him do the same for the simple fact that he could easily overpower me/restrain me.

In reality, many abuse victims still care about their abusers and want to avoid hurting them, because it's very rare for abuse to only be physical. Victims will rationalize and defend their abusers actions, and avoid calling the cops because "I don't want to get him in trouble." And most men have been raised to be afraid of themselves, of the damage they could do to a partner. And again, if a man causes injury, even bruises, while trying to restrain a female attacker, it's very easy for her to turn that against him. Your ex may not be aware of that, but lots of men are.

omegaphallic · 2017-03-13T01:16:49+00:00

Yes.

TibsKirk · 2017-03-12T19:12:06+00:00

Anyone know of any stats on the number of DV shelters that offer men some degree of services. I know in my area, there is a shelter for women that will put men up in a cheap hotel or a donated room of a house.

I'm curious how common that is.

Imnotmrabut · 2017-03-12T19:15:48+00:00

Shelters are primarily to meet the needs of children. I wish that people would drop the equality of men and women meme.

The Primary Victims of Domestic Violence have never been women - just CHILDREN. That simple fact is one of the reasons Erin Pizzey has been ostracised by Feminists and the IPV/DV Industry for putting children first and men and women equal.

Children need Shelters/Refuges .... they just need to take along an adult for awkward legal reasons.^/s

OnTheSlope · 2017-03-12T21:26:01+00:00

When he says those things they are merely an expression of ego. He subconsciously knows he must appear strong or he will lose your favour and social status, so his ego forms the opinion that he could not be run out of his own home by a woman, that would be weak. He rationalizes this by relying on his greater strength even though he knows there exist circumstances that could mitigate his strength (weapons, social warfare). But it's important enough for him to maintain the idea that he is strong that he doesn't give any credence to these options.

But reality doesn't care about egos.

iainmf · 2017-03-12T21:56:08+00:00

In addition to what others have said, there are other situations to consider.

Domestic violence isn't just partner violence. Imagine a 17-year-old male who's father beats the shit out of him. He has no place to go.

What about a man who wants to protect his children from a violent partner. Is there somewhere for him to take his kids?

Gay men need domestic violence services as well.

Too often the issues is framed as a man vs women issue but there are lots of other sistuations that need to be addressed as well.

2017-03-12T23:29:31+00:00

Yes. Because police are instructed to always wheel out the man, the courts grant women restraining orders willy nilly and men are not all supernatural beings made of muscle.

We too can be disabled, weak, small or otherwise impaired. And in north america let's just say that winter can be very deadly.

aussietoads · 2017-03-13T00:08:55+00:00

Physical strength doesn't protect you from the elements such as rain, snow, cold or extreme heat. It also doesn't protect you from other people when you are homeless and asleep in a vulnerable location.

cld8 · 2017-03-13T02:14:38+00:00

Men may be physically stronger, but I don't see how that has to do with shelters. Homeless people are subject to extreme temperatures, storms/rain, thieves, and so on. Being strong physically doesn't protect against any of those things.

Furthermore, this is a generalization. There are plenty of physically strong women, and weak men.

chocoboat · 2017-03-13T02:38:59+00:00

Men's shelters are certainly necessary, for a variety of reasons that others have pointed out.

But yes you are correct that the need of a shelter for reasons of domestic violence is something that happens mostly to women. Not exclusively though, as not all men could easily overpower and restrain their girlfriend or wife. Some women are pretty strong, some men are weak or disabled or old, and some women use weapons.

And it is a myth that men can always shut down a woman's violence without being harmed, in the same way that a mother cat might pick up her kitten by the neck. Perhaps a man could subdue a violent woman but he's likely to endure some scratches and scrapes in the process, and he's also risking having the police arrest him for using force against a woman. Some men would much rather escape from that situation than have to use force. And if the woman is slashing at him with a knife or holding a gun, his life is every bit at risk as an innocent woman who is being attacked by a violent man.

MagicTampon · 2017-03-13T04:28:56+00:00

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throwman_11 · 2017-03-13T05:45:39+00:00

Your ex boyfriend is the problem. What is he gonna do if you have a knife or a frying pan? What is he gonna do if you attack him in his sleep?

He is a perfect example of the problem discussed in the movie.

This_is_my_phone_tho · 2017-03-13T19:10:23+00:00

If a man were to defend himself it would drag his name through the mud. even if it's true that the man would come out on top (which is not necessarily true, think about weapons or being hit while asleep, or medical conditions that would make the man weak) him defending himself would not be a win.

Abusive women don't just have their bare hands. They use police, weapons, they attack their husbands through their children. the key factor is the will to do harm. any abusive parter with the will to do harm is more dangerous than any other partner who does not. in short, if there's a will there's a way.

heimdahl81 · 2017-03-14T01:37:36+00:00

My ex tried to stab me in my sleep. I couldn't kick her out because her name was on the lease. I had to sleep for weeks with a chair propping my bedroom door shut and just hope she didn't try anything else. I really could have used a shelter.

Title	Re: The Red Pill Movie.. Do men need shelters though?
Author	[deleted]
Upvotes	3
Comments	29
Date	March 12, 2017 5:57 PM UTC (9 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/5yzxdv/re_the_red_pill_movie_do_men_need_shelters_though/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/re-the-red-pill-movie-do-men-need-shelters-though.929343 https://theredarchive.com/post/929343

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