Does anybody think that some of the MRM is just as bad as the shitty side of feminism that we fight against?

azazelcrowley · 2017-02-27T21:07:23+00:00

I think womens issues are a thing too. I'm happy to work on them where they exist.

In many cases it's two sides of the same coin.

Paternity leave will help women get careers and men be fathers, is an obvious example.

Womens body issues and self-esteem. I dont think the censorship stuff works, but raising people to be psychologically healthy about that shit seems good. Men could use that too.

Etc.

skywreckdemon · 2017-02-27T18:50:45+00:00

There are assholes no matter where you go, but men's issues goes deeper than the fake female's issues that 3rd wave feminism has fabricated.

And tell me, after losing your house, kids, and money from someone who used you and would have done you better by shooting you, tell me you wouldn't hold resentment for women. Just like how a female rape victim would hold resentment for men. It's a normal and natural response to any horrible occurrence.

Also, since the MGTOW movement has a foothold, that has effect as well.

Demonspawn · 2017-02-27T20:16:20+00:00

Count of OP's posts/comments in r/MR in the last 30 days: 2

I'll take your opinion for what it's worth.

SodaPalooza · 2017-02-27T18:53:55+00:00

I feel that lately this sub (and a lot of MRA circles in general) have been increasingly misogynistic

Can you post some links to examples of upvoted, supported posts that you find to be misogynistic? I just had this debate with someone on /r/changemyview and she was unable to provide anything.

Because if there is misogyny being supported here, then it must be that those who are supporting it are blind to it. Because generally speaking, misogyny is called out and downvoted in my experience. But perhaps you see misogyny where I don't.

or claiming that women have no issues relating to their gender at all.

This one is a philosophical debate. It isn't that women have no issues relating to their gender. It is that, in the United States, men and women are legally equal except in cases that favor women (like selective service, for example). So in the United States, women already have equal rights to men.

Now socially, men and women are treated differently with different expectations and such. But for individual women (and men), it is still a choice that they are legally free to make. They can choose to have a career or choose to raise kids; they can choose to be a teacher or choose to be an engineer; they can choose to wear a dress and high heels, or jeans and sneakers.

So when feminists point out, for example, that women are under represented in STEM jobs, it is certainly worthwhile to question whether that is an "issue related to their gender" that is worthy of concern. If it is simply because choices that women and men make, then why is it worthy of concern? Everyone is getting what they individually choose.

And to take it a step further, even socially, my belief is that the genders are overall treated equally. Each gender has different advantages and disadvantages, but they tend to even out in the end. So every time feminists try to advocate for some type of legislation that will advance women, we need equal and offsetting legislation that will either advance men, or demote women, to keep the balance intact.

So a lack of female representation in STEM may be a gendered issue. But if it is, then lack of female representation in garbage collection and coal mining is also a gendered issue. And you can't address one without addressing them both, lest you create inequality.

DavidByron2 · 2017-02-27T18:15:34+00:00

Here's my concern. You came in here and said that anyone claiming that women don't have issues is sexist. So you basically were saying that it's illegitimate to disagree with your opinion on a topic. That's something men see a lot from feminists. Feminists constantly tell men they have no right to an opinion on gender matters. That if they do they are "mansplaining" and "sexist".

Even if you were were absolutely convinced that you were right and they were wrong you have no right to say men don't deserve to have an opinion. But you're not even right. You're not even able to defend your opinion in the most simple way (by naming some of the issue you claim that women have).

What I see really going on here is that you are interpreting men having an opinion as sexism against women. You even compare this to feminist hatred of men and the very real issues men face including discrimination in law and discrimination by institutional policies, and on very severe issues effecting whether men see their own kids or on their life expectancy.

ThePigmanAgain · 2017-02-27T23:50:32+00:00

Thank you for your concern. See that big plank of wood set into the wall? It's a door -- i suggest you use it.

EricAllonde · 2017-02-28T02:22:06+00:00

I think we've had enough of these tone policing posts now. Give it a rest for a while.

Anyone who's thinking about writing another one of these: please don't bother. Everything that could be said, has been said. We don't need to hear it all over again. These posts are just cluttering up the sub.

DavidByron2 · 2017-02-27T17:39:21+00:00

What issues do you pretend women have by the way? name some. Name one.

Thanks for doing the equivalent of comparing the ACLU with Nazis btw. Sorry, the "shitty side of Nazis".

2017-02-28T05:14:50+00:00

Yeah, mensrights is becoming a shit hole of outrage porn that has little to do with men's rights.

Okay... So a feminist did something bad and nobody called her out on it. What the fuck does that have to do with men's rights??

I would love it if we could ignore feminism altogether and focus on how to improve the quality of life for men. The only time feminism need be mentioned is when they actively try and oppose action for men's rights. Otherwise, shut the fuck up about them.

FultonPig · 2017-02-27T18:34:38+00:00

Yeah, absolutely. There are crazies at the fringes of any movement, and Mens Rights is no exception. Just like there are some perfectly reasonable feminists (Christina Hoff Sommers is one of my favorite people), there are reasonable people in the Men's Rights movement. At the same time, there are a lot of absolutely psychotic feminists who thrive on misandry, and there are a lot of psychotic MRAs who make the rest of us look bad.

/r/MensRights is one of the most hated subreddits. The issue isn't that people on here are unreasonable though, I think, because from what I've seen, we tend to downvote the most toxic posts, and the things we say aren't nearly as inflammatory as the things that come out of a lot of other subs. That leaves what happens off of this sub. MRAs don't have a good reputation anywhere, because we have this public image of 1950s Mad Men-style misogyny. The best way we can combat that is by being vocal, but rational and respectful. We can't give people the feeling that we're complaining, and we can't constantly play the victim card, because that's what feminism seems to have become. The Men's Rights Movement isn't a solution to everything. It never has been. It's a complement to other ideologies. It's an area of interest, not a way of life.

I consider myself an egalitarian, but I'm concerned about men's rights as a side dish to the main course. I think everyone should be treated equally, and I realize and acknowledge that everyone has their own different types of problems, but as a guy, I've seen that men are often overlooked because of our public perception, and society's idea of who everyone should be concerned about. Feminism isn't the kind of thing that accompanies egalitarianism. It's instead of egalitarianism. I was just talking to someone in another sub who said that egalitarianism often is swayed towards one gender or another based on who calls themselves an egalitarian (implying that feminism doesn't do that).

Granted, it's entirely possible that there are trolls on both sides who are trying to make the other side look bad, but in any movement, I think it's most important to focus on the most widely-held beliefs as the core, rather than whatever you think is the most unreasonable. There's a middleground, and there are fringes, and the fringes should never represent the body as a whole.

Aureolin9861 · 2017-02-27T22:14:33+00:00

I think after some of the court battles and false accusations, it's ok to be bitter, especially on the internet. You'd get crucified IRL for saying that shit.

rodvanmechelen · 2017-02-28T21:07:48+00:00

Read The True Believer, by Eric Hoffer. Eventually, every mass movement turns bad. In my most recent video I talk about how my 1994 Seattle Times interview. During that interview, the reporter told me that the MRM is reactionary, and I said yes, of course. There is a key difference between the MRM and the "going-Galt" MGTOW: the MRM is a movement, and even in 1994 we were seeing early signs that it will eventually turn into a hate movement, and in the January 1995 issue of my magazine we ran an article addressing this. MGTOW, on the other hand, is not a movement but a consciousness.

brartod · 2017-02-28T08:28:23+00:00

You most definitely are not alone at all. Just see how people who dare not be trump shills/conservative/traditionalists/right-wingers are treated here so many times.

Sadly with each passing day the MRM is becoming more and more the mirror image of feminism. Bitching and whining and moaning about "the left", people who don't support trump and SJWs and obsessing over them and with "triggering" them is now the priority of many so-called "MRAs"...

Sad...

GunOfSod · 2017-02-28T09:21:19+00:00

It's this post again.

2017-02-28T17:42:59+00:00

the community is just cancer, mgtow/the_donald and other degeneracy is ruining it.

Comments